Brain Matters S10.E20: Long Distance Relationships

[00:00:00] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. [00:00:40] Speaker B: It's 06:00 in time again for brain matters, the official radio show of the UA Counseling center. We are broadcasting from the campus of the University of Alabama. Good evening. My name is Doctor BJ Guenther and I'm the host of the show in case you don't know, along with my colleague and producer Kathryn Howell, who is usually with me tonight, but she is out tonight. She'll be back next week for our last show for the semester. And in case you don't know, this show is about mental and physical health issues that affect college students and in particular UA students. So you can listen to us each Tuesday night at 06:00 p.m. On 90.7 fm, or you can listen at wbuafm ua.edu. You can also download the MyTuner radio app and just type in WBUaFM 90.7. And don't forget, we're almost at the end of the semester. We're going into dead week next week and then it'll be finals week. So we've got one more show next week and I'll make some announcements about that at the end of our show. But we are always needing topics for future shows. So when we come back, we don't do shows in the summer. So when we come back for the fall, I'll need some help with suggestions for new show topic ideas. And if you have any ideas for new show topics, email those to me at brainmattersradiofm ua.edu and I'll consider using your topic. I'll try to remember to give out this email address throughout the show tonight just in case you have some ideas. You know, it's always good to do like the basic college student trend, topics like stress management, time management, roommate issues, test anxiety. But sometimes people ask for specific topics and tonight that is what we what's happened? Because I've had many students request this topic and I've never done, in the ten years that I've done the show, we've never done this topic and I'm a little bit I was kind of shocked when I went back and thought about long distance relationships. That's our topic tonight. Navigating long distance relationships in college can be a test of commitment and communication for many students. And these relationships may stretch across cities, states, countries, demanding ingenuity and steadfastness from both partners. So while love is essential, it isn't the silver bullet that ensures success in a long distance relationship. And the bedrock of these connections is a solid foundation of trust, understanding patients, and finding ways to maintain an emotional closeness despite the physical distance that's crucial. So tonight our guest is joining us from Portland, Oregon. He is doctor Patrick Cheatham. And Doctor Cheatham is a licensed psychologist with years of experience working with different issues as well as various populations. And I was just talking to Doctor Cheatham about how I learned about him and contacted him was from an article that I read on Healthline. And I'll try to find the title of that article. I think it might be possibly how to make a long distance relationship work. Or I've got another article, navigating long distance relationships in college. So, Doctor Cheatham, thank you for joining us tonight. I appreciate it. [00:03:53] Speaker C: You're welcome. Thank you for having me. [00:03:54] Speaker B: Can you tell the listeners a little bit more about yourself, about your credentials and why you're interested in this topic, and a little more about how you got involved in giving some comments on that article? [00:04:07] Speaker C: Sure. I'm a clinical psychologist. I'm licensed in the state of Oregon. Right now I work in private practice with adults, primarily doing individual therapy, but I will start working with couples over the coming year. Through my career, I've worked in a few different centers. I've worked in community mental health. I've worked in college counseling, actually at University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Yes, that was my internship. I've worked in crisis work and also in aid service organizations. And there's been a few different things that I've kind of focused on over my career. Some specialty areas have been severe mental health issues, trauma and stress, relationship issues, as well as sexual health and wellness. [00:04:53] Speaker B: So the gamut, basically. It just sounds like various populations, you know, that UNLV placement for at their counseling center. I bet you saw a lot of different things. Just like I don't think you can get bored at a college counseling center, to be honest with you. [00:05:08] Speaker C: I agree. I loved working there. I have a lot of affection for that site. And UNLV was an interesting university, too, in that there's a lot of people that go there for just a few classes and doing that, they can kind of access all the medical services and a lot of the benefits on the campus. And so I feel like it was a little bit, almost like a community counseling center in many ways. [00:05:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Did you, I'm just curious. Sidebar. Did you have session limits at that counseling center? Do you remember? Because we have session limits here. [00:05:43] Speaker C: We did. I believe they were twelve. Although sometimes, depending on the budget, we could flex up and get six more. [00:05:51] Speaker B: Same here. It's 15 for us, but we can ask for extensions if we need to. That's not a reason for someone not to continue in counseling. We would never just cut people off. Right? [00:06:01] Speaker C: There's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of good work that could be done in just twelve appointments. But even if somebody needs therapy beyond that, it's a really good start. And we would always help them find a therapist in the community that could work with them. [00:06:15] Speaker B: So I'm assuming if you worked at a college counseling center at UNLV, you saw students who were involved in long distance relationships? [00:06:27] Speaker C: A few of them. It's interesting. My interest in this topic actually came up for personal reasons. My wife and I started our relationship in a long distance relate long distance. I was going to my graduate program for my doctorate in psychology, which was at Rutgers University, and she was living in Seattle, Washington, all the way across the country. Right. So we started long distance and then she moved to join me in New Jersey. And then later kind of in our relationship, during my internship year, we were long distance again for another year. [00:07:07] Speaker B: So you've got firsthand. I mean, you've got firsthand experience. I feel like that gives you more credibility even. [00:07:13] Speaker C: I do feel like that helped a lot when it came to participating in that article and a lot of the writers questions around it, I could draw from personal experience, and it really highlighted for me just a lot of the creativity and work that goes into a long distance relationship. I also had a fair number of friends who were currently in long distance relationships then too, because of either the military or academia or just, just life. We're a very mobile community. [00:07:43] Speaker B: That's interesting you bring that up because do you, I don't have that down as one of my questions, but now that you mention it, do you think that, let me see if I can word this correctly. Do you think that positively impacts someone who is in a long distance relationship if they have friends who are also, because I've had students who the opposite has happened, like they've got single friends here and I really feel like sometimes they're trying to talk them out of staying in that long distance relationship. You know, saying things like, oh, you're only in college for four or five years, and why do you want to tie yourself down with somebody? [00:08:21] Speaker C: I think you're correct. I think personally, I think it helped. And then what I've seen in other people is if you have friends or people in your community, community that are in a long distance relationship, it normalizes it. You can go to them for practical advice. You can just go to them to complain about it. And that griping with someone about something helps? [00:08:44] Speaker B: Yes, it helps. What are the rules of long distance relationships? Is that the right terminology? Are there rules for long distance relationships that you would tell people? [00:08:58] Speaker C: I would be reluctant to say there are rules because that feels kind of rigid, but I think there are certain guidelines, and in my experience, I came up with a few of them. I think the first one is communication. Communication is key and is essential. Long distance relationships just require more frequency around that and more variation in how you communicate because you're just not in person with your partners that often you have to talk through. You have to write, you have to talk through text, you have to have video time, phone time. I think that's an essential guideline. I think along with that, they just require a lot more planning and more intentionality. You can't really be as spontaneous. You can't just go with the flow often. And I think that piece is sometimes seen as a real big obstacle for some people. I think another kind of guideline is something around a balance of effort, effort, commitment, energy, however you want to call it. I think you both have to feel like you're contributing to the relationship in some way, and that that contribution is as close to equal as you can kind of get it. And I think the, the last guideline that I tend to land on is trust. [00:10:22] Speaker B: That's the biggest one. [00:10:24] Speaker C: Yeah. You're not going to know a lot about your partner's day to day life, and there's a certain amount of trust that's required with that. [00:10:34] Speaker B: Do you think that going back to communication, and I was trying to take notes, I have had students who are transitioning from high school to college, and they're dating somebody from high school. And I've had students who have purposefully broken up with their girlfriend or boyfriend before they go to college because, not because they really want to break up, but because they don't want to be in the long distance relationship. That's one question. I want you to comment on that. But another one, do you think that people need to have a stronger foundation. Like, for instance, need to have dated longer before they attempt a long distance relationship. Longer than a certain amount of time. [00:11:24] Speaker C: That's a really good question. My first kind of thought is I don't know if they need to have dated for a long time before they start long distance. I've personally known of a few people who didn't have much dating experience before doing long distance, and the relationship rather started than out that way. These were already adults, so in their late twenties, early thirties, older. Maybe there's something around their developmental stage where they're a little bit more secure in who they are at that point that makes it a little bit easier. I guess one consideration I would have around that transition from high school to college is that itself is its own kind of developmental phase and life change. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:17] Speaker C: And then you're adding on. Yeah. You're adding on a long distance relationship on top of that. And I wonder if some of the difficulty around a long distance relationship might rather be difficulty around that developmental change. [00:12:31] Speaker B: Probably. Probably. And, you know, with regards to arguments, because I made some other notes about that when you were talking about trust, what about, you know, I think there's a certain amount of pressure, maybe the lack of spontaneity you were talking about where you feel like, let's say you've planned to call each other at 07:00 at night, you know, and for you and your wife at the time, you were on some different time zones, like major. 3 hours apart. Right. Three. [00:13:11] Speaker C: Right. 4 hours apart. [00:13:12] Speaker B: Yeah. So how do you navigate not feeling like there's certain pressure to talk about certain things and not being spontaneous? You know, like. Like we're gonna call at 07:00 p.m. And this is what we need to take care of this, this, this. And, you know, this is what I want to talk about. It's so. It's so rigid. [00:13:37] Speaker C: It can be. Yeah, it can be rigid. I think if you approach it that way, it definitely will be rigid. I think this is a point where maybe patience, and I would even use the term grace comes in to where you can plan to talk at 07:00 p.m. Your time, but that may not work out. It may happen sooner, it may happen later. One person may have had a really rough day and they just can't do it. And I think you have to have some leeway around that. And I think maybe a little bit of creativity and ingenuity in how you try to spend time together. One thing that a friend and her partner would do is that they were on different coasts, but they would try to go to the same movie at roughly the same time. [00:14:27] Speaker B: That's good. [00:14:28] Speaker C: And not text during the movie, because that's rude. But share that experience and go out afterwards, have coffee or if it's later in the evening, kind of a drink. [00:14:40] Speaker B: A virtual date, basically. [00:14:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Have something of a virtual date. [00:14:44] Speaker B: That's cool. [00:14:45] Speaker C: Yeah. So I think you can be creative around the efforts of communication and contact that will maybe make it feel not so rigid. [00:14:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, of course, technology, I mean, most of the kids I see have never been without social media at all, you know, or a phone, you know, a cell phone or. I don't know how people did it back in my day. You know, how do you navigate a long distance relationship when you just have the phone? Seriously. So the technology, I guess it can be a good thing and a bad thing sometimes, too, because I sure do hear a lot of chatter from, you know, Snapchat, knowing their location and then questioning that. And that probably goes way deeper than just knowing where the, where the other person is. That goes to the trust issue you were talking about. [00:15:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I've read some interesting things recently around, you know, kind of younger generations feeling more comfortable actually sharing their location and almost being surveilled by a partner or an adult. So I don't know if it's experienced as jealousy or trust issues in those relationships, but it is an interesting factor these days. [00:16:01] Speaker B: Can be used against somebody too. [00:16:03] Speaker C: Yes. [00:16:04] Speaker B: If they have trust issues. Hey, let's take our first break, and then when we come back, let's take an email question, if that's okay with you. It'll be a little more spontaneous, certainly. Okay, we'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7 the Capstone. [00:16:28] Speaker C: WVUA FM, Tuscaloosa. [00:16:30] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. [00:17:08] Speaker B: Hey, you're back listening to brain matters on 90.7 the Capstone. I'm Doctor BJ Guenther. We're talking tonight about a very interesting and much requested topic, long distance relationships. And my guest is doctor Patrick Cheatham. He is a licensed psychologist. He's actually in Portland, Oregon, not Portland, Maine. And we were just talking about some of the issues, some of the guidelines, basically, for long distance relationships. And I try to read, you know, I try to read articles before and do a little bit of research before the show and have found some people have suggested the same that you suggested. You know, better communication. You got to look at trust. You got, you know, you got to, like, make some time, too, for each other, because that's gonna. That's gonna be very important, too. And you have to be patient. That's one of the suggestions you made. Let's take a long. Let's take a question, and I hope it's not the same. Why are long distance relationships so hard to maintain? [00:18:14] Speaker C: That's a really good question. You know, I think kind of preparing for this show and thinking through the guidelines that I talked about before I started to think about it in terms of a lot of those guidelines that I was talking about really aren't distinct to long distance relationships. They're, I think, essential in all relationships. I think what happens in long distance distance relationships, though, is that things don't really kind of happen organically or what I would call passively. Just think of the process of sitting with somebody, having coffee with them, and how the conversation flows, and sometimes it doesn't even feel like you're choosing what to talk about. It just kind of happens. I think there's that engagement that happens kind of passively. And in local relationships, that does a lot of the work, I think, of actually developing a relationship and maintaining it. And in long distance relationships, all that has to be more explicit and, I think more active. So it feels more work, and it really feels like more maintenance. [00:19:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think it goes back to what we were talking about before the break, a little bit about the. It's just more spontaneous when you're in person with each other, you know? But I have heard. I have recently had a few students who do what you were talking about as far as, like, going to the movies, having a virtual date where there is not as much pressure to carry on a conversation. They're just. Sometimes they just sit their phone down and go about their business. It's like the other person is in the room, but they're actually on their iPad. [00:20:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:03] Speaker B: Which sounds strange to someone like me, who's not used to that at my age. I'm showing my age, but it works for some people. It really does. One of the articles I read was mentioned setting expectations. And let me just read that to you if you don't mind. Sure, you might have the urge to wing it because it can be hard to talk about these situations, but for the benefit of your relationship, you need to make sure you have clear expectations for you and your partner. Here are some basic topics to get you started. How often will you speak to each other? Like some people plan that it's not a spontaneous thing that helps with the prediction. You know, something to look forward to. Should you set designated times to check in with each other? What methods of communication? Communication do you prefer? Texting? Facetime? What else is there? Phone? Actual phone? How often will you visit each other and how will you manage changes if study issues come up? [00:21:11] Speaker C: I think those are all really important. I would highlight maybe the last two around visitation and having some clear expectations around how often you will actually be in each other's presence and what that can look like. And then I think, can you remind me on that very last point, how. [00:21:32] Speaker B: Will you manage changes if study issues come up? [00:21:36] Speaker C: Right. How can you be flexible? How can you talk about the expectations have to change in some way. [00:21:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:45] Speaker C: And that's a really essential communication skill in any relationship. [00:21:50] Speaker B: You know, and we mentioned before the break about the transition from high school to college, and I've had a few who have come to college and still dated somebody in high school. And that is a big issue because the expectations are different and the needs are different. Just because I feel like college in some respects is harder, the subject matters are harder. You know, the decisions that you'll be making, not, not even mentioning the taking care of yourself, you know, for the first time, living on your own, being independent while that other person is still at home, and they don't have to really worry about that yet. [00:22:32] Speaker C: Right. And that person who's still in high school, they still have a host of choices that they have to make around their college experience or whether they're going to go into work or what that's going to look like for them. [00:22:45] Speaker B: That's right. [00:22:46] Speaker C: Yeah. I think expectations can also sit on just what kind of relationship is it also, is this, is this going to be a casual relationship? Is this intended to be something that's serious? Is it going to be long term? Are you expecting to eventually live in the same place? [00:23:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:06] Speaker C: Maybe those don't all have to happen. You don't have to talk about all that right at the beginning of the relationship before you choose to get into it. But I think it is important to have that conversation at some point. [00:23:19] Speaker B: Yeah. The. Where we're both going to live is a big one. It's a big one. I talk about with not just long distance, with students in general, like right now getting close to graduation. I have several couples who. They're going to graduate schools. They are about to embark on a long distance relationship like you and your wife did. Yeah. They are choosing to go to different graduate schools and so they're nervous about that. [00:23:44] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. If you're going into a career in academia, long distance relationships are very common. If you are going to be doing military service after. After college, long distance relationships are very common. [00:23:58] Speaker B: Definitely. Definitely. Another question. You might not can answer this, but we can try. What percentage of long distance relationships fail? I don't know if I read that. I read. I read something about the statistics. According to the research from Journal of Communications, up to 75% of college students have engaged in long distance relationships at some point. And according to Cornell University study, 25% of college students consider themselves to currently be in some type of long distance relationship. But I don't have any statistics on how many fail. [00:24:38] Speaker C: I did a little bit of kind of poking around, too, and I came across some marketing data from 2023 that wasn't specific with college students. It was with adults in general. General that talked about something like 14 million us couples define themselves as being long distance, which is a lot. [00:24:59] Speaker B: I'm shocked, too. Yeah. [00:25:00] Speaker C: Yeah. The failure rate that was cited was something like 40% of couples fail. And from that research, it looked like there were actually no significant differences between a failure rate between long distance relationships and local relationships. Now, I can't speak to the validity or the reliability of that data. Taking it at face value. Yeah, it's kind of hard to make sense. It made me think about, what do you call a failure? It's easy to think of, well, the relationship ended and it failed. [00:25:40] Speaker B: Was it because they were not in the same town or was it other factors? [00:25:46] Speaker C: Yeah. Is it something else where this just wasn't a relationship that was going to work anyway? And it made me wonder, are there ways to judge whether a relationship is a success or failure that don't have to rely on? Are you still in it? If you were an adult who has been married for a long time, but let's say you had two significant relationships before that successful relationship, that's a 33% success rate. [00:26:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:18] Speaker C: And that doesn't mean anything. I think even relationships that end can be really meaningful for people. There can be a lot of affection there. You can feel like you learned something really valuable there. It's hard to judge it based on just the idea of success or failure. [00:26:38] Speaker B: Well, this person who sent that email question had a follow up, which is, you know, kind of a no brainer here. What are some of the causes. What are some of the causes of failed long distance relationships? [00:26:52] Speaker C: I would say, well, first off, considering all the factors of things that go into maybe failed relationships in general still exist in long distance relationships, ones that are maybe specific with it, probably have to do with time spent together, maybe differences in terms of what the expectations are for the future of the relationship, maybe challenges around being able to move in together or live together at some point down the road. And maybe something, I think, mentioned this just a second ago, that effort piece. I think in long distance relationships, if it feels pretty clear that one person is putting in more effort than the other. [00:27:41] Speaker B: Um, yes. [00:27:42] Speaker C: Yeah, that happens. [00:27:44] Speaker B: I hear that complaint a lot. [00:27:46] Speaker C: Yeah, it leads to a lot of resentment. And resentment, especially if it goes unacknowledged and unaddressed is something of a relationship killer. [00:27:55] Speaker B: Cheating, too? I mean, let's just speak of the elephant in the room, no pun intended. But cheating is a big one, too, you know, but I think that goes back to maybe some of the other stuff we're talking about, the communication barriers. One of the articles I read talks about the challenges, and I don't think we've really talked about the challenges. What. And if you. If you wouldn't mind sharing some of the challenges that you faced, you know, in your long distance relationship, too, I think that would help listeners understand. I mentioned time zone differences and, you know, we kind of laughed about it. But that is listed as a challenge for some people, especially if it's another country. Even I've got a student now who is in another country, and it's, oh, I don't know, about a ten hour difference for her and her partner here at the university. [00:28:51] Speaker C: If you're talking about real time communication, like video or a phone call, that's a really big difference. [00:28:57] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. It's a dance for them. That's what we call it. [00:29:01] Speaker C: Yeah. In my personal experience, just a three hour time difference could present itself as a challenge because you're just in. You wake up and somebody's already been awake for several hours and in the middle of their work. Work day. [00:29:18] Speaker B: Or you're getting off work and she's still at work or still at school. [00:29:22] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think kind of that's a really big challenge. Probably another big challenge. And this is another actually kind of big issue in relationships that often goes undiscussed is money and finances. [00:29:38] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. And traveling to meet each other soon. [00:29:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Travel is expensive. So if you are going to be traveling very. To see each other very often, that takes money and that takes, you have to make travel itself a financial priority. And maybe, and maybe have very clear conversations between partners around who makes what and where their money goes and who pays for what. And some, yeah, some couples are really good at avoiding conversations like that, but you, you can't, you kind of can't avoid them in a long distance relationship. [00:30:14] Speaker B: Especially when you're looking forward to something like your boyfriend coming to see you or something, for example, and he has to tell you, I can't afford to come. You know, I have had people say, you don't care about me or I'm not that important. Use that. That is horrible to say, you know, that's like the kiss of death in a relationship. What about meeting? What do you think about meeting in person? How important is that? And how often do you feel like people should see each other in person when they're in a long. If it's plausible and they're not in like halfway across the world? [00:30:56] Speaker C: Right, right. I do think it's important. I think it's important for maybe two reasons that come to mind. One is just having a better sense of what a partner's day to day life looks like and being able to join that, join in with that, with them. There's often a temptation, I think, when you do meet to turn it into something like a vacation. And I would actually suggest that you resist that a little bit and try to have something of a day to day life together just to see how you live together. [00:31:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:31] Speaker C: The second, I think, kind of benefit of meeting in person and, you know, let's just call this what it is, is physical intimacy. [00:31:39] Speaker B: Yes. [00:31:40] Speaker C: Affection. You need touch. You need to be able to smell the other person. You need all those kind of like, common sense. Yeah, yeah. Proximity sensations and just to feel close to somebody. And you can, you know, you can be really creative with that through video, through other means. But I think there's no substitute for just touch. [00:32:02] Speaker B: No. And I mean, if I hear you correctly, you're saying it's better for, like, for a college student, for instance, for them to go or come to go to that. Not to meet, like, in a town somewhere in the middle, because I've had students have to do that sometimes. [00:32:18] Speaker C: I think. I think if that works for you and you have to do it. [00:32:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:22] Speaker C: And it's more convenient, then you go with what works for you, you know? [00:32:26] Speaker B: But I do, like you mentioned. [00:32:29] Speaker C: Right. [00:32:29] Speaker B: It's less costly to do that. [00:32:31] Speaker C: Right. But I do think there is a real benefit to being able to live in somebody else's life and see what it's like. I think that can help build a lot of trust and a lot of familiarity with what somebody does day to day and a sense that, you know, if their friends get to know you, you know, that, you know, that you're a fuller part of their life. [00:32:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm glad you said that because I was just about to transition into social circles and integration. Like, how does that play into problems? Sometimes, like introducing new friends, sometimes you have to do that through video chat, you know, discussing, like, plans with friends and how to stay involved with each other's lives. If you haven't met those people, I would think that would be a real trigger for the trust sometimes. [00:33:24] Speaker C: I think that's where jealousy tends to come up and it's a source of jealousy. But I think actually getting to know friends is the antidote for jealousy and getting to know what somebody's life is actually like. And it's really important in relationships in general, but I think especially long distance relationships, that they're really fed and sustained by other social connections in each other's lives. Like a relationship is. Yeah. Yeah. A relationship is no substitute for having friends. And I think friends, family, other social connections can really kind of feed, I think, and enrich a relationship, actually. [00:34:09] Speaker B: Sure. Let's take another break and then we've got several more email questions, if you're willing to take them. Just kind of like spontaneous. [00:34:16] Speaker C: Sure. [00:34:17] Speaker B: We'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7 the capstone. [00:34:32] Speaker C: Wvuafm tuscaloosa. [00:34:35] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental mental health health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's Crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. [00:35:13] Speaker B: Hey, you're back, listening to brain matters. I am doctor BJ Guenther. We're talking tonight about long distance relationships, and my guest is Doctor Patrick Cheatham. Doctor Cheatham is a licensed psychologist and has been quoted in a healthline article about long distance relationships. That's how I found his information, his contact information. And, you know, some long distance relationship can be a real challenge for a lot of people, but for some, there are benefits. What do you think are some of the benefits of being in a long distance relationship? [00:35:50] Speaker C: I think one benefit that comes to mind is each partner is still able to pursue maybe what their other life goals are. You're not having to necessarily. You're probably delaying a choice around prioritizing a relationship over something, say, career. But you are able to explore your own schooling, your own interests, your own career without having to kind of make a choice yet. And I do think that's a benefit. [00:36:22] Speaker B: Yes. [00:36:23] Speaker C: I think for some people who find relationships difficult. And what comes to mind is maybe somebody who has something of like an avoidant attachment style. [00:36:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:35] Speaker C: Long distance relationships can actually feel a bit more comfortable. There's less pressure around togetherness and less things kind of get triggered around that. I'm a little bit cautious to call that a benefit because I think in an ongoing basis, there's a cost of maybe never quite getting to a level of intimacy. Yeah. Not feeling connected. Not getting to a level of intimacy that you might like. [00:37:04] Speaker B: That's right. [00:37:04] Speaker C: But I think at least in short term, in short doses, there can be some benefit there. And maybe it is something of a step towards feeling more comfortable in relationships. [00:37:14] Speaker B: Totally. And I think it helps people sometimes become better planners. You know, I agree. Independent, like you said, and also not necessarily, you know, in the hookup culture that we're in on a college campus. Let's just face it, it helps you to become not so focused on the physical. Sometimes that's not a bad thing. [00:37:37] Speaker C: No, I agree. Yeah. I think there's no downside to delaying gratification. That's really well correlated with all kinds of positive life benefits. But also it really, I think, expands your view of what a relationship is and what work goes into it. [00:37:59] Speaker B: It does take work. [00:38:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:01] Speaker B: Really does. This kind of transitions a little bit into one of the email questions. Do most report that the benefit outweighs the stress? [00:38:15] Speaker C: In my experience, I think most people do report that it does. That might be a side effect of long distance relationships are easier to end. And so if the stress does become more, then I think people just often end it. [00:38:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:32] Speaker C: Becomes too much. Becomes too much. But I think for people who do stay in them, I think, in my experience, they report that the benefits outweigh the cost. [00:38:44] Speaker B: What about this other person asked, is it hard for a couple to adjust back to being in the same town when they are. I guess that means, like, if you come to town for a weekend, sometimes people have more issues because they're not used to being together that much. I guess that's what that means. [00:39:09] Speaker C: That's kind of how I hear that. And I think that could go one of. I think that could go either way. I think some people maybe do have more stress coming together and having a sense of what being around someone in a fuller sense is like getting to know them more. And if that's the experience, then I think you definitely have to talk about that. There can be a tendency to not talk about the relationship when you're together because you just want to enjoy time with each other. [00:39:41] Speaker B: Yes, and I express that to students. [00:39:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I think you really have to challenge that. I think you have to challenge that avoidance. And that's a really crucial time to talk about the relationship. And oftentimes the best opportunity to do it because you're face to face and it will just go easier. [00:39:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like it takes a level of maturity too, and in. [00:40:04] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I don't think everybody has the experience, though, that it is difficult to finally kind of be in each other's presence or, you know, finally be in a situation where, say, you're living together or you're living in the same town. I think oftentimes people actually really find are really grateful that they're finally with each other. [00:40:25] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I've told several of my students who are in long distance relationships that we're gonna do this show tonight and that it's gonna air next week. I had one student ask me specifically to ask you this. How do you approach a long distance relationship for two people when one person is way more independent than the other? I know, yeah. [00:40:52] Speaker C: I would be curious about what they mean by independent and what independence maybe means for each person. Independence can mean maybe something around like avoidance or what I sometimes call counter dependency, where they don't want to. They don't want to rely on other people. I think independence can also mean, though, that somebody's really comfortable going into new situations, making new friends, and they're going to be more social in their life and they don't need their partner for that. And I think the reverse is something around. If somebody is feeling more dependent, then I think that's an opportunity for them to maybe foster the friendships that are going to be around them and really find closeness in that way. That is a really tough question, though. That is a difficult experience. [00:41:46] Speaker B: And I think she may be thinking that one person may not need to talk every day and that other person does. So one person has to sacrifice. I think that's the way she was looking at it. [00:42:03] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's an area for. That's a really good area for communication around what the expectations are going to be in terms of talking to each other and communication. And if it feels like a sacrifice for one person, then that is maybe set up for challenges. [00:42:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:28] Speaker C: But if is there room for both people to maybe make adjustments to what's kind of feels more comfortable for them? So it's a little bit more to the middle. [00:42:36] Speaker B: Definitely. [00:42:37] Speaker C: Which means the person who doesn't need to talk every day maybe has to step up and communicate more. And the person who really wants to talk every day might have to tolerate sometimes where that doesn't happen. [00:42:52] Speaker B: That's usually when I give my compromise spill. If you're in a relationship, you've got a compromise somehow. [00:43:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:03] Speaker B: So, hey, let's take our last break, and when we come back, I want to talk about some activities that couples can do together via long distance and also any resources you have for the listeners. Okay, you're listening to brain matters on 90.7. We'll be right back. [00:43:30] Speaker C: Wvuafm tuscaloosa. [00:43:33] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective Counties Crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. [00:44:12] Speaker B: Hey, you're back listening to brain matters on 19.7 the capstone. I'm BJ Gunther and we're talking tonight with Doctor Patrick Cheatham. Doctor Cheatham is a licensed psychologist and our topic is long distance relationships, which can be a tough one for some people just because it's just hard to be around away from the person that you care about. And it does take a lot. I think it does take a lot more work. Even though you're not with them all the time, it takes effort and you have to be intentional about maintaining this relationship. That's so important. What about activities that couples can do together? You mentioned the movie. I like that. [00:44:53] Speaker C: That's my favorite one. Yeah. And I have to. Yeah. I have to thank my friend Sarah for that. I think in addition to the movie, I think activities that focus on kind of creativity and thinking outside the box while still you have to be planful around at help. So other ideas that I've thought about are mailing each other small gifts. [00:45:18] Speaker B: Yeah, care packages. [00:45:20] Speaker C: Yeah, care packages. They don't have to be long thought out letters. They can be just little. [00:45:28] Speaker B: Thoughtful. [00:45:30] Speaker C: Yeah, thoughtful. Some people have mailed art to each other. Some people have mailed cookies. Some people have mailed. This is showing my age, like mixed CDs. So I think that's one way to really kind of have some fun around it and some activities. Yeah. You know, planning, if it makes sense, kind of calls and video time together without trying to get maybe too rigid around it. Maybe planning something of like a video date. And that can be doing an activity together. That can just be talking or maybe. [00:46:10] Speaker B: Eating dinner together, as weird as that may sound. [00:46:13] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Eating dinner, having breakfast together. [00:46:16] Speaker B: Yes. [00:46:18] Speaker C: And also, you know, people planning kind of videos, video sex with each other, too. That can be a fun way to kind of have an activity that you're doing together. [00:46:30] Speaker B: And that's a whole nother session. [00:46:32] Speaker C: Yes, it is. [00:46:33] Speaker B: That's a whole nother show, which I'm going to talk to you about when we go off the air, if you'll stay tuned. No, I was going to ask, are there books? You know, I didn't, in the research that I was doing, I was really looking for articles mainly about long distance relationships. Are there books written about long distance relationships? Did you find any resources? [00:46:52] Speaker C: I haven't come across any that I've particularly liked. I have also looked at kind of articles and I, and I check out books here and there. Recommending books isn't actually a focus of what I often do. And I'll be honest, I don't have any good reason why. It just isn't the case. It's not your thing. [00:47:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:47:13] Speaker C: It's just not my thing. One thing that actually I think has been helpful for people are kind of online forums. And so sometimes, like Reddit, there's a lot of subreddits around long distance relationships. And, you know, I'm a little bit mixed in on advising stuff like that because sometimes those aren't very helpful and the tone of them can be, can be difficult and critical and very critical. But I've also, I've also kind of been amazed at sometimes how thoughtful and just caring they can be, too. So I think that's one thing that I would recommend. Just maybe have something of a critical eye around it. If the tone is critical in general, there's likely not going to be much benefit to anything that's written there. If the tone is caring, then I think that that can be helpful. [00:48:05] Speaker B: I think it would be nice, it might be hard to do, to do this, but to find other couples who have been successful at this, like you and your wife, you know, to give people, to give couples hope that it will work, because I think a lot of times when you talk about long distance relationships, people automatically say that it's not going to work. I bet you had. I bet you encountered that, too. Maybe even parents are like, why are you doing this? It's not going to, you know, it's not working. [00:48:36] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And I think people, especially parents, are maybe having advice that's rooted in, I don't, I don't want you to get hurt. [00:48:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:48] Speaker C: Rather than rooted in, I want to make this the best chance that it can be to actually work out. And I want to support you with this. I would suggest that people kind of ask around in their friend group, in their family. There may be people there that they didn't know have experience with long term. [00:49:07] Speaker B: Long distance relationships who are together now, but they have dated. [00:49:13] Speaker C: And that can be a good source of practical advice. It could be a good source of kind of hearing about challenges, getting support for even just doing it. [00:49:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:24] Speaker C: Yeah. That's valuable. [00:49:26] Speaker B: That's a good, that's good. Suggestions. Any other resources you can think about, like any apps that are useful, any websites, any articles? [00:49:37] Speaker C: I have not come across any myself and I will just say, don't take my word for it that they're not out there. It's just in my experience, I unfortunately don't have any specific, anything specific to recommend there. [00:49:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't, I didn't search for any, like, apps to help, but they could be out there and if not, there might be a market for that. I don't know how, but as far as, like, just offering creative ideas for activities, you know, it's no different than kids coming and talk, talking to me and they're trying to come up with just ideas for dates. Cheap dates and free dates. [00:50:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:15] Speaker B: You know, that's like the thing now. [00:50:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:18] Speaker B: You have to. The key, I think, is creativity. [00:50:23] Speaker C: I think this really is an opportunity for creativity. I think if you feel like you're creative already, then you're going to do really well with this. If you don't feel like you're creative. [00:50:35] Speaker B: You'Re going to struggle. [00:50:36] Speaker C: You're going to struggle. This will be a challenge. But I really want to reframe that as this is an opportunity for you to grow. [00:50:43] Speaker B: And on that note, we'll end the show. How about that? Thank you so much for being on. This has gone by fast. I say this every week, but it really does when the topic is interesting. And like I said at the beginning and throughout the show, this has been a topic that people, when I mentioned that we're going to try to do this tonight, their eyes, like, lit up because there's several students I'm seeing, and I know that means there's others on this campus who are in long distance relationships and maybe are struggling or just don't know what resources there are for them out there. This has been helpful. Thank you. Well, you're welcome. [00:51:21] Speaker C: And I really do hope that people found it helpful. [00:51:24] Speaker B: Let me make a few announcements and then I want to mention something to you after we close the show. Don't forget our shows are recorded and podcasted on the Apple podcast audioboom.com and voices dot ua.edu. You can just type in brain matters and you'll find some of our past shows. There's also a link to voices ua.edu on our counseling center's website. That's counseling. And as always, I like to thank the people who made our show possible. Our executive director, Doctor Greg Vanderwal, my producer, Katherine Howell, who will be back next week for our last show, my colleagues here at the counseling center, and Kathryn Raichford, and the WVUA staff who edit our shows week to week. Of course, my guest tonight, Doctor Patrick Cheatham. Our last show for the semester is Nick's week, and it's another one that has been requested. When all of my friends are getting engaged. I find myself this time of year talking about this a lot. So that should be a fascinating and interesting show. Thanks again for listening and join us next week. You've been listening to brain matters. Good night. [00:52:39] Speaker A: This show was not intended as a substitute for professional counseling. Further, the views, opinions and conclusions expressed by the show hosts or their guests are their own and not necessarily those of the University of Alabama, its officers or trustees. Any views, opinions, or conclusions shared on the show do not create a relationship between the host or any guest and any listener, and such a relationship should never be inferred. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, please contact the UA Counseling center at three four eight 3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation. Please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.