Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show host or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation please call 911 or go to your nearest emerg.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: It's 6 o'clock in time again for Brain Matters, the official radio show of the UA Counseling Center. We are broadcasting from the campus of the University of Alabama. Good evening. My name is Dr. B.J. guenther. I'm the host of the show along with my colleague and producer Kathryn Howell who is out tonight and I hate that because I really need her here. But she had something else to do tonight but she'll be back next week. In case you don't know, the show show is about physical and mental health issues that affect college students and in particular UA students. So you can listen to us each Tuesday night at 6pm on 90.7 FM or you can listen online at WVUAFM UA edu. You can also listen on several apps. My favorite is my Tuner radio app and you just type in WVUAFM 90.7. We're probably midway through the semester. We only do shows in the fall and the spring. We don't do any in the summer, but we're midway through this semester. Most of the shows scheduled out already. But I need some more show topics. So if you're listening to this show and you've got some ideas for show topics, email those to me@brain mattersradiobuafm ua edu and none of the topics are off limits. I feel like in the years that we've done this show, since 2013, it feels like I've covered just about every topic you can think of with regards to college mental health. But I think there's some topics that always, and I say this every week, always need to be revisited. Like depression, anxiety test, anxiety, stress management, sleep. So all those shows, any topic that might be a trend in college mental health, that's a good one to cover too. So if you hear of something that we haven't covered that you feel like we need to, email those to me. And again, it's Brain mattersradiovuafm ua Edu. I'll try to remember to give that out. The email out. We come back from a Break. Katherine usually helps me remember that, so I hope I do. And I've got a little bit of sinus congestion. It's just been bad this year for me, so I sound a little nasally. I do apologize. But our show topic tonight is. I think it's a great one. I went to a conference back in November of 2024, and this person spoke in one of our sessions. And I really did. I don't know what I was expect. I guess I just had a lot of information that was just misunderstood. I don't know. I was curious, and that's why I attended. And it was better than I expected. I mean, really, I was like, I've got to invite her to be on the show. It's hypnotherapy, the neuroscience behind rapid and lasting change. And that was the title of her presentation, too. You might have an image in your mind, kind of like I did, of how hypnosis works from TV or a movie, but in real life, there are no magicians waving watches in front of your eyes. We all know what I'm talking about when I say that to put you under their spell. And it's often misunderstood and not widely used. However, medical research continues to clarify how and when hypnosis can be used as a therapy tool. And the person I'm talking about who spoke at our conference is Maggie Mintz. That's gonna be hard for me to say with my sinus information. Maggie is a licensed professional counselor in private practice in Madison, Alabama. And along with her lpc, she's also a certified instructor with the National Guild of Hypn and a certified hypnotherapist. So you've got a lot of credentials to get to be able to do this. And we're going to talk about that in just a minute. But first of all, thank you for being on the show.
[00:04:26] Speaker C: Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Yes, yes. Tell the listeners anything else I let out. You know, one of the interesting. I mean, your introduction at the conference was extensive, and I was more intrigued about you living in Okinawa, Japan, more than anything. So tell the listeners about how you ended up in Japan and the other exotic places you've lived throughout your career.
[00:04:54] Speaker C: Well, I actually used to be a high school English teacher. And after working at about three years in public education, I realized that I didn't really want to spend the rest of my life doing that. So I moved into corporate America, where I made some money so that I could pay my rent and my bills, and I just started Reading and researching and talking and, and really pursuing anything that got me really excited and passionate. And so I just started following my passions. And that led me to taking a hypnosis certification course in Fairhope, Alabama.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Just came from there last weekend. My husband's from there, so, ah, yeah.
[00:05:41] Speaker C: Well, I was living in Pensacola at the time, and that's where I met my husband back in 2004. And we got married and as a Marine, he was an air traffic controller instructor on base in Pensacola. And so we moved to Okinawa for three years and it was incredible. I had a. He was mostly off island. And so I spent the time working as an English teacher at Kubasaki High School on base and working on getting my master's in counseling psychology. And because I had already gotten my certification in hypnosis, I had my interest piqued in hypnosis. But when I was going through the course, I was constantly asking my, my hypnosis instructor, you know, why do we use this script and not that one? What's going on in the brain when this is happening? How does this work? What's what? And I just had a lot of questions that she just did not have answers for. And she was like, just read the script, Maggie.
And I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't work like that. I, I want to know, I want to understand. I'm going to dig in. And so when I started, and thankfully there was a. On Okinawa, there was two programs that you could get into. There was one for nursing and one for counseling psychology. And so I was like, ah, meant to be. Here I am. Yes. So I managed to finish my master's on island, and I got to focus my master's thesis work on two of the things that got me the most excited. And one was actually positive psychology. And Dr. Martin Seligman's work in positive psychology focused focusing on what makes us happy and, and how to build relationships and a life worth living. And the positive psychology movement. And the masters of Applied Positive Psychology and learned optimism. And he already demonstrated that we could learn to be more optimistic. And I. And then I also got to dig into the research behind hypnosis and just the incredible amount of empirical evidence into as to why hypnos works and what's going on in the brain and all that was super fascinating. So what I learned, the, the basics in terms of hypnosis, is that it is an accelerant for human behavioral change. And so with my master's thesis, I sort of posited that since we can learn to be more optimistic. I bet we can do it faster with hypnosis.
So that's what I worked on with my master's thesis and got to really dig into the two things that I was really excited about, which I enjoyed. I got to do a lot of work at the naval hospital and was working with clients that were dealing with all kinds of things from we ran an eating disorder clinic to we were working with of course, service members and their families with PTSD and other related issues.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: So did you find, did you find that living in Japan or that Japanese are more accepting of hypnosis than Americans? Is that the right way to ask that more open minded?
[00:09:06] Speaker C: Well, I think, I think that there are, that there are definite cultural differences regarding to thoughts and perceptions. But the same could be said in terms of all the sort of pockets of cultural differences across the United States. Right. So there are areas and, and I have traveled around the United States. I spent a year traveling around the, the western side of the United States and visiting all kinds of places from living in Seattle and working in Kansas City and going to San Diego. And so I got to visit a lot of different places and each place has cultural vibe.
I also, I also spent a summer traveling around in Eastern Europe and that was also really fascinating to see kind of the, the thoughts about hypnosis and how, how receptive they are and, and just the extent to which there are various cultures around the world where it is just a more accepted part of life, period. And I think, and I think that really speaks to the extent to which we work on demystifying it and helping people to understand that it is just a part of who we are as human beings. And it's just a matter of the way the brain works. One of the things that I think about when people are like, well, I don't, I don't believe in hypnosis. Yeah, but you get that a lot, you know, and in my mind, you know, I could say, well, I don't believe in gravity, but I'm still stuck to the planet, right. So, so these are forces that are just, this is just how the brain works. These are, it's just a way of speaking about the way that the brain assimilates information and, and a way for us to talk.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: I think if it had another name, you know, if you, if you said it was something else, nobody would know what I mean.
[00:11:21] Speaker C: Well, actually, actually there was a John Grinder and Richard Bandler did a lot of work. They followed Milton Erickson around for a while and they deconstructed hypnosis and renamed it neurolinguistic programming, or nlp.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: There you go.
[00:11:39] Speaker C: So, and, you know, and I toyed with that idea too. As a beginning hypnotist, I was like, well, it has such a stigma. You know, what if I, you know, say it's something different? And then I thought, well, how are we going to get rid of the stigma if we don't call it what it is? So since then, I've just been working to educate as many people as I possibly can on what it is and demystifying the whole process.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: So hypnosis and hypnotherapy are the same thing?
[00:12:06] Speaker C: No.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Okay, explain the difference.
[00:12:10] Speaker C: No. So hypnosis is just that altered state of consciousness where we are more receptive to suggestions. And typically we're. We are in a state of hypnosis from birth to about 7 or 8 years old. So if we look at brain waves, for example, as one way to kind of gauge where we're at, typically, brainwaves will.
Will kind of move in the range of beta, alpha, theta, and delta. Beta is consciousness, alpha is the hypnotic state.
Theta is light sleep, and delta is deep sleep. So typically, we kind of move throughout beta, alpha, theta and delta as we go to sleep and are moving around our day. Well, from about birth to seven, we don't have beta waves. We typically are either in deep sleep, light sleep, or alpha waves, the hypnotic state. And that's because as we come into this world, we are helpless. And we have got to learn everything on the fly and fast in order for our survival. So that's why we have that hypnotic state. That's why we have this altar. Altered state of consciousness where we just are downloading information.
There's no filter. We just take it all in. So the things that you say to a child from birth to about 7 or 8 years old, that's why it creates that in those inner tapes, those inner mo. Those that inner programming that we talk about.
That's why. It's because we're in a state of hypnosis from birth to about 7 or 8 years old, at which point our consciousness, our sense of self, our ego, develops and that our consciousness, which is like our gate guard, develops, and our critical thinking kicks in. And that's our filter, right? So if somebody tells me, like, hey, Maggie, we're gonna go on a trip to the moon tomorrow, I'm gonna be like, I don't have a rocket ship. I don't think so. Right. We compare it with what we know prior to that Though, Right. If I'm four and you tell me we're going to the moon tomorrow, I'm gonna go past back.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:23] Speaker C: Right.
So. So hypnosis is just that state in which we are. We are from birth to about 7 to download information quickly. But hypnotherapy is using that state in order to essentially, a lot of times kind of reprogram a lot of the initial programming that was put into the subconscious from about birth to seven. If we've developed harmful coping mechanism or patterns of behavior, but other. Other changes that we want to make, even just in terms of improving our lives and ways to make them better. So like I said, it's an accelerant for human behavioral change. So hypnotherapy is about accessing that altered state of consciousness and then specifically, intentionally putting in suggestions for the benefit of the person. Whereas I can be. Hypnosis happens all the time, Every day, throughout the day. Most people. Again, it's like gravity. We don't realize it because it. It's such a part of our lives. It's like trying to explain water to a fish.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: Where would daydreaming fit into that?
[00:15:41] Speaker C: It is hypnosis.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: Okay, that's what I thought.
[00:15:44] Speaker C: Daydreaming, worrying. When you drive someplace and you can't remember how you got there, you were hypnotized. Yeah. In fact. In fact, the Department of Transportation has a name for it. They call it highway hypnosis. Or in more recent manuals, they call it velocitization.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: But.
[00:16:02] Speaker C: But it. Anything like that. When we're in a grocery store, they take advantage of that because, you know, they've got the music and the right temperature and to kind of lull us into that being. Just being receptive to information. So we're hypnotized all the time. In fact, if you listen. I don't know if you're familia familiar with Bruce Lipton. I love his work. He was talking about how we are as human beings. We spend about 95% of our waking hours either thinking about the past or lost in the future and not actually present and when. When. And the problem with that is that when we're lost in our head, right. Thinking about the past or the future, then we are on autopilot and we are in a state of trance. We are. We are hypnot. Yeah, we're hypnotized when we're on our phones, when we watch a movie, when we watch a TV show. Which is why they have product placements, because those suggestions.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:17:05] Speaker C: Like the Super Bowl.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Can you make the argument that, like, when someone's skeptical, could you make the argument that. I mean, cognitive behavioral therapy is a little bit similar to what you're talking about. If you think about it, it. It's not. You're not in a trance. I don't get, you know, like a trance, like, state, but you're changing your thoughts and your behaviors. Do you see what I mean? Could you make that argument? Yeah.
[00:17:32] Speaker C: Well, I think that the most successful CBT happens when we are in a trance state. And that can happen from a relaxed, inviting environment that the therapist prepares or from all of the degrees that the therapist has on the wall. Sort of like white. White coat syndrome, which kind of go into. Right. That. That. That sense of awe. And anything that activates that altered state of consciousness can. Can allow us to take in those suggestions much more quickly, creating rapport with a client. Or like, if you're talking with a friend and you are just really understanding each other, that's a form of hypnosis. Right. So getting into sync like that. And yes, all of those things aid cbt. So I would say that cognitive behavioral therapy is. Is the sort of behavior, the cognitive behavioral piece of it, and hypnosis just helps us do those kinds of things faster. Does that make sense?
[00:18:35] Speaker B: It makes perfect sense to me. For listeners, maybe not so much, but that's why we're doing the show. So let's take our first break, and then when we come back, I want to talk to you about, like, what qualifications you need to have to be a hypnotherapist. So stay with us. We'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7, the capstone.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: WVUAFM Tuscaloosa. This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show host or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact. Contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: Hey, you're back listening to brain matters on 90.7, the capstone. I'm BJ Guenther, and we're talking tonight about hypnotherapy. It's so fascinating. And don't let that word scare you. If you're listening like, don't turn us off just because you think you know what we're talking about, because I don't think you do. Like, I'm even learning so much. And I did. When Maggie Minsk is our guest tonight. She's a licensed professional counselor, but also certified instructor in hypnotherapy. And when we left off, I was asking Maggie, Maggie about like, what the qualifications are. What are the requirements? How much training do you have to have? What's the difference between you and somebody, like I mentioned in the introduction on TV or the movies, who is danging dangling a, you know, a watch in front of your eyes?
[00:20:32] Speaker C: Well, I mean, I can dangle a watch if you want me to.
And. And really it's just a technique that some hypnotists like to use. And because it can activate that hypnotic state that we were talking about, something called eye fixation, which I can also activate staring at a candle or a spot on the wall. But eye fixation is an aspect of trance, is an indicator of trance. And so I can go into trance by just. Just beginning with that one thing. But so I'm an instructor with the National Guild of Hypnotists and the. And in fact, I'm teaching a course in the Huntsville area at our office. I'm an independent contractor with the bal.
Um, and so I have one coming up and the one that I teach, I can talk about it because. And it's. And once you finish the program, the certification course, then it is. Then you get a certification that is national through the national guild. So there are other ways to get certifications through. ASH is another one. The American Society for Clinical Hypnosis imdha, which is the International Medical and Dental Hypnotherapy Association. And they have. They may have different requirements, which is why I'm specifying. So for our. For hours, it is a seven day, hundred hour course, 25 of which is kind of on your own.
And basically we go through and talk about the basics. And it's very didactic and information note taking. In the morning and in the afternoon, we practice.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:22:13] Speaker C: And we practice and we practice every afternoon so that. That you can get more comfortable with it and be able to. I mean, once you're finished with the 100 course, you have a basic certification in hypnosis. Right. Now there are various kinds of hypnosis.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: And that was going to be one of my questions. Are there different types? Yeah, yeah.
[00:22:35] Speaker C: So there are different kinds of hypnosis. So as a. With 100 hours basic hypnosis certification, you could hang a shangle and begin working as a hypnotist. And you can begin working with clients on things like smoking cessation or weight loss or things like that.
Stress management management, not anxiety, because that's in the realm of counseling. Right. So. And I typically teach the course. So I used to live in North Carolina. When we came back from Japan, we were stationed on the coast in North Carolina and then I moved to Raleigh and while I was there I was typically teaching the course to counselors. So. And therapists. So, so that, and I teach to anyone who wants to take the course, but primarily that's who was coming to see me because I would do presentations like our, like I did at our state conference here. I would do those in North Carolina.
And so therapists, social workers, LMFTs would come and learn hypnosis as an additional modality for treatment. Right. So that, so that they learn how to be more effective in their work as, as, as therapists and also just in terms of learning those things personally. So. So you have a basic certification, you can hang a shingle and make money as a hypnotist. But if you want to be a hypnotherapist, you've got to have, you've got to have a therapy license. Right? A licensed professional counselor. Yeah, you've got to have a degree. There's also like forensics, hypnosis. So if you want to work with like a police department or you want to work. Right. So there are various fields and specialties. There' also metaphysical, there's past life regression hypnosis and all of these are specialty. Right. There's hypnobirthing. If you want to work with expectant mothers, there's pain management and these, these specialties require additional training and, and specific. And I would suggest going to kind of the masters in the field to get your training in that regard.
But yeah, so I mean I think if you want to you can just do basic hypnosis or you can find a specialty, find a niche or like I do, you can add it as an additional modality for treatment as a therapist.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: Yeah. So there's a lot, it sounds intense and there's a lot of like you said, variation with the knowledge but the basic certification.
[00:25:10] Speaker C: So I do it over two weekends. One is a four day weekend and the second weekend is a three day weekend.
The beginning of May, beginning of June and then you're done. So that's just for. And it's 100 hours.
So seven days, it's about seven, eight hours a day for seven, eight days and then you're finished and you have a basic hypnosis certification.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Let's take our first email question and it's a general question that we really haven't touched on specifically yet. What does hypnosis help with?
And we might want to reword that. What does hypnotherapy help with?
[00:25:50] Speaker C: So many things and there's been so much research on it that it is just incredible. And in fact, if you want to delve into the world of sort of hypnosis and academia, then ASH is a great organization that, that a lot of people who are kind of pursuing PhDs and using hypnosis, go, go there. But PTSD and trauma from phobias and fears, anxiety, stress, depression, habits and changing any type of behavioral changes that you want to make.
Enhancing self esteem and confidence, pain management, sleep quality, relaxing. I mean you name, name it. Like it has to do with human behavior and the way that, the way that I think about it, thought is also a human behavior. So and I come from a background of, I have intense training and the, the intensive training in dialectical behavior therapy through Marsha Linehan's program of behavioral tech. And so and, and when I took that, when I took that course and became trained in dbt, I was noticing the overlap and interesting kind of interlocking aspects of mindfulness and hypnosis. But I mean I would say everything and, and in fact, one of the reasons that I teach this class and I give workshops about it and talk about it is because I feel like that hypnosis has been the number one most important thing that I have ever learned in my life, either professionally or personally.
[00:27:42] Speaker B: Personally. How many?
[00:27:43] Speaker C: Because. Because it's about understanding how my brain works and using it to help me.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: That was a question. I've read in some articles before the show that there are two areas of the brain that, that show greater activity during hypnosis. What are they like? Can you explain that? That.
[00:28:04] Speaker C: Well, so, I mean, yes, we could go into the neuroscience of hypnosis, but there are various changes in the brain. Some areas of the brain show increased functioning during hypnosis and some areas of the brain show decreased functioning. One really important area of the brain that seems to be significant in regard to hypnosis and hypnotherapy specifically is the anterior cingulate cortex. And not surprisingly it. Part of what it does is it helps us to focus.
So and it does a lot of different things. But.
And I would say, you know, the all the whole of the brain is Impacted in different ways.
And, and the reason for that is because we are able to downshift so that we can kind of open up and take in more information as fast as we can. Right. And these altered states of consciousness are being studied specifically. I don't know if you've seen some of Dr. Amen's work or there's been some really incredible work on looking at just altered states of consciousness and how to tap into them in other ways. But, and one of, one of the things to understand is that we have as, as a, as a species. Right. Human beings have been using altered states of consciousness to heal. It's the oldest known phenomenon known to man.
Right. In terms of healing from an altered state. So they, back in ancient Greec, in Rome, they had something called psychomantiums where they had whole buildings that were designed to put you into a trance like state so that you could just really shift your way of thinking and change your life.
So.
Yeah. And I mean, up until more modern.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: Is there a number, is there a specific number of sessions that you can, you know, kind of predict how many it will take or it does it just depend on like the different issues that you're working on with, with a client?
[00:30:40] Speaker C: Well, it does really depend.
So you know, you might be working on something like smoking cessation or a phobia which could be taken care of in one to two sessions.
[00:30:52] Speaker B: Okay, okay.
[00:30:53] Speaker C: Or it could be something a little more deep seated like trauma and especially early childhood trauma. And I don't, I'm not sure if you, if you've read Judith Herman's work, the book about trauma, but when I was, when I was reading it, I was just astounded at how often she talked about. Because it's a historical kind of review of trauma as we know it. And there's. She talks about hypnosis. Hypnosis, hypnosis of every step of the way in regard to trauma and the treatment of trauma. Hypnosis every step of the way because it was used in every major war in terms of helping service members and families.
So it just depends if you're talking about something that's a little more.
[00:31:46] Speaker B: And Maggie, you know, now that you mentioned trauma, how do I say this? The trend is EMDR now. Like, I feel like more people are credentialed in emdr, even here at our center, but I don't know anybody in our area.
Maybe I just don't know. But that is, you know, certified in hypnotherapy as an alternative to possibly emdr. Like, that's really. Right now that. That's what you hear a lot about. Like, it's. It's a trend, and I. I know it works, but I think hypn therapy needs to be just as much of a, you know, option for clients.
[00:32:29] Speaker C: That's why I'm here.
[00:32:30] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. And so that's why I wanted to talk about this. We've had shows on EMDR in the past. Like, right. We started this show in 2013, and that was one of the first shows. There was only one psychologist here who was trained and credentialed in emdr. So we had that show. And I was very skeptical, you know, at first.
But this is why I like talking about this, because I just don't know if we have anybody in this area. You may know if there's anyone certified in the Tuscaloosa area. Can you do hypnotherapy via zoom?
[00:33:02] Speaker C: Oh, sure.
[00:33:03] Speaker B: Okay. So that's an option right there.
[00:33:05] Speaker C: Oh, sure.
[00:33:06] Speaker B: For all who are listening. Hey, let's take another real quick break. Our second break. When we come back, I got more email questions for you, and then I want to talk about, like, kind of, you said, demystifying. Let's demystify some myths.
[00:33:19] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:33:20] Speaker B: Go down the list, and I'm just gonna hit you pretty hard with those. We'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7 the Capstone.
[00:33:39] Speaker A: WVUAFM, Tuscaloosa. This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests. Any listener, if you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:34:18] Speaker B: Hey, you're back listening to brain matters on 90.7 the Capstone. I'm BJ Gunther, and if you are listening and you have show ideas or show topics for this the rest of this semester or even next fall, email those to me@brain mattersradiobuafm ua.edu, and I'll consider. Nothing's off limits. I'll consider using any topic you suggest. Tonight, we're talking about hypnotherapy. It's fascinating. This is fascinating. Maggie Minsk is my guest. She's a licensed professional counselor in private practice in Madison, Alabama, but she's lived. You've lived everywhere, it sounds like all over the world and traveled and seen a lot. And you mentioned different cultures. Let's talk about. Are there any kind of like age or gender differences with regards to hypnotherapy? I don't know if I'm asking that. Right.
[00:35:10] Speaker C: But there are. So as we learned about hypnosis, there, there are some differences in regard to age, but not gender.
So in regard to age there, there's sort of a prime portion of our lives where we are very susceptible as we're younger and as we get quite a bit older, we're talking, you know, 80s, 90s, then we're. We're not as recept.
Hypnosis and those altered states of consciousness, or at least having those induced.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: Excuse me, there's a delay. Sorry.
[00:35:53] Speaker C: Well, I, you know, the youngest. I mean, I, I was a hypnotist before I had children. So I've been hypnotizing my children since the day they were born.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: Didn't you say you have, don't you have twins?
[00:36:08] Speaker C: I do have twins. I remember that my twins are just about.
And my, My youngest is 14, so. And, and yes, I have been teaching them about hypnosis and. And using hypnosis on them as a mom since they were born because it's really, you know, like I said, just accessing this altered state of consciousness, which is very natural. It's just about learning how to downshift into that space where we're open and receptive to information and how not to. Right. So, you know, I think that one of the things that I, I think I teach more than anything is for helping people not to be hypnotized. Right. And have ads and things like just inundating them. So how. How not to be hypnotized and then how to hypnotize yourself? Well, when you're wanting to change.
[00:37:07] Speaker B: Hypnotize. Yeah, yeah.
[00:37:08] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. I. I hypnotize myself anytime I go to the dentist. I'm sort of. I've just trained myself that as soon as I sit in that chair, because that chair that you sit in at the dentist, that's the only time you ever sit in a chair like that. And so I just conditioned myself to. When I sit down in that chair, I just, I go to some beach in my mind where I'm hanging out watching the seagulls.
[00:37:35] Speaker B: I bet a lot of people do that and don't even realize what they're doing, you know, like they don't even know what it's Called. But they do.
[00:37:41] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: They don't even know.
[00:37:43] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:37:44] Speaker B: Do you all.
Another email question. What? And I've got kind of another one to piggyback on this. What successes or recovery have you witnessed with clients?
[00:37:57] Speaker C: Oh, a lot.
Well, and, you know, even starting with myself. So when I first was learning, I was very skeptical because I'm, you know, explain it to me or. Or show me, because I don't. I don't. I want to understand.
And like I said, my instructor didn't really have a lot of answers. And so I was like, I'm not so sure about that. But as I was learning and. And researching and reading more into it, I. At the time, I was chain smoking, probably two packs a day minimum. And when I quit smoking, when I hypnotized myself and quit smoking, I was like, whoa.
And. And my. My next thought was, what else can I do? Yeah, right. So there was this, like, soup. I was super excited to just see, like, how far can I take this? What can I. What can this help me with?
So, yeah, I mean, when I first started off, I was helping people with smoking cessation and weight loss, because that was all that I was capable of doing at the time. Since I. I mean, I was working in corpor. I was just a hypnotist.
But.
And I realized at the time, too, that I. That the clients that were coming to me and wanted help with so many things really had deeper emotional issues that I did not feel prepared to handle.
[00:39:31] Speaker B: And this was a piggyback on the question that we just asked.
What has been the most challenging case for you with hip hypnotherapy therapy? What issue, I guess, is the most challenging?
[00:39:45] Speaker C: I would say probably anytime that we're dealing with multiple issues, and often that's where kind of trauma gets tangled in there. I would have guessed because. Because there are. There are typically multiple reasons for.
Well, although I would say, you know, trauma can mean a lot of things, so it. It dep. Ends. But I would say if you're talking about sort of more complex ptsd, something like that. Yeah, but. But I would say the easier things to deal with are things like just strict behavior modification like smoking cessation or phobias are often the easiest. Yeah, because if you think about it, I mean, a phobia is. I mean, somebody who has a phobia is essentially hypnotizing them themselves. So we already know they're super hypnotizable and super suggestible. So all we have to do is harness the power of that brain and flip it around and done, and boom.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: That's a perfect transition for the myth. Listen, myth bust. Okay.
[00:40:58] Speaker C: All right, let's do it.
[00:40:59] Speaker B: Myth number one, everyone can be hypnotized.
[00:41:03] Speaker C: Well, so, I mean, there are some. There are some people that it a man. There are some people that you don't necessarily. You wouldn't want to hypnotize as a hypnotherapist. People who are already struggling with reality, such as somebody who is an unmedicated schizophrenic. That's not somebody that we would want to take on as a hypnotist.
And they don't need any help with altered states.
So. So I think that those are considerations to. To keep in mind. But so I would say, you know, if you're talking about hypnosis, we can all be hypnotized because we're all hypnotized all day, every day, right? We're hypnotized by just walking around in life or our phones or if a teacher drones on or somebody listening to us right now is hypnotized just listening to the show. Right? So we've always thought that people. Everyone.
[00:41:56] Speaker B: Well, I've always thought that people who.
How do I say this? Are highly aware can't be hypnotized because they're, like, too aware. I don't know how to say that. Do you know what I mean?
They're. They're. It's almost like they don't want to be. I guess, too. Don't you have to be willing?
[00:42:18] Speaker C: No, actually. You don't. Well, I mean, if you think about it, right? So you can be driving down the road and be hypnotized by the road, and are you willing? Not necessarily. Right.
[00:42:31] Speaker B: Just happen.
[00:42:31] Speaker C: So. Right. It just happens. It happens naturally. But if you're talking about hypnotherapy, where you go into a hip. The hypnotist or hypnotherapist office for. Right. So that's where it's important to make that distinction. Are we talking about hypnosis or hypnotherapy?
But, you know, typically with people who are super aware and then. Typically, what we mean by that is that there's a lot of resistance and.
[00:43:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:43:01] Speaker C: And. And I would say that if. If I'm working with somebody and I'm noticing some resistance, it's because I haven't done the myth busting well enough yet.
[00:43:10] Speaker B: There you go.
[00:43:11] Speaker C: Because. Because there's some fear that's. That's keeping that because they came to see me for a Reason.
[00:43:16] Speaker B: Yes. So they're open minded that far.
[00:43:19] Speaker C: Yeah, but they're resistant and putting up some blocks because there's some fear that I haven't uncovered and addressed yet. And so I would, I would, would just, you know, we can, we can move into hypnosis and out of it really, really easily. We do it all day, every day. And when we're in a hypnosis session, every time we go into hypnosis, we go deeper and faster so we can just come back up, talk about it and go back down.
But that, but, and I would also say that it depends on the, the skill level of the hypnotist. So the hypnotist, you know, somebody who is not very experienced or not very skilled would say, well, I don' I don't know how to hypnotize that person. They, they're not, they're not going along with it. Well then, then it's about understanding, right. The kind of brain that you're working with and, and how to find a way to kind of access like the, the secret code to get that brain to, to shift my number two.
[00:44:21] Speaker B: You ready?
[00:44:22] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah.
[00:44:23] Speaker B: People aren't in control of their body when they're hip, hypnotized.
[00:44:29] Speaker C: You know, a lot of people think that they lose control or become unconscious. But, but really we are in control. We are in control. In fact, some people will say that all hypnosis is self hypnosis. Yeah, Right. And that as a hypnotist, I'm merely facilitating. I'm sort of the, I'm your travel guide. But you're the one driving the bus.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: Interesting. It's a good analogy. Myth number three, hypnosis is the same as sleep.
[00:45:00] Speaker C: Well, we've already busted that one. Because if you look at, if you look at brain waves, right, we've got beta, which is consciousness, Alpha, the hypnotic state, and then theta, which is light sleep, and then delta, which is deep sleep. So we move through the state of hypnosis in order to get into light sleep and deep sleep. But it is clearly not the same thing as delineated just by brain patterns alone and brain waves.
[00:45:28] Speaker B: Myth number four, people can't lie when they're hypnotized.
[00:45:33] Speaker C: Well, that's not, that's not a myth that I've heard.
[00:45:39] Speaker B: Serum. Yeah.
[00:45:43] Speaker C: So I mean, I think that what you're getting at is that people do feel like they're afraid of the loss of control and they're afraid that because of that they're going to tell somebody secrets that they wouldn't Otherwise, or they wouldn't want to, or they're going to expose themselves and be vulnerable in some way that they don't want to. But the reality is that. That that's not the way that it works. Right. Because if as a hypnotist, we had total mind control, right. Then hypnotists, there would be, you know, a whole rush of hypnotists that are like, open your wallet. Give me all your money.
Like, so, I mean, at some point we were like, um, no, you know, no. So although, you know, so if there's something that we are willing to do, then we may push ourselves more than we would normally because we, you know, it's. It's sort of where it's more uninhibited. We're more uninhibited in some ways because we're more open to suggestions, which includes in terms of, like, talking about things and doing things. And so as a hypnotist, that's another reason to go to a hypnotist that, that is certified by a national organization because there are ethical standards that they. That they have to adhere to or lose their license, lose their certification, just like a therapist.
[00:47:07] Speaker B: Myth number five.
[00:47:09] Speaker C: Okay, you can.
[00:47:10] Speaker B: We. Well, you can be hypnotized over the Internet. Not the same as Zoom. We. We talked about that. With Zoom, you would have a certified hypnotherapist guiding you. This is different. You can be hypnotized over the Internet. Meaning like, I guess, using like a smartphone app or something like that.
[00:47:32] Speaker C: Well, you can be.
[00:47:34] Speaker B: Can you? Well, just based on the same thing you were talking about.
[00:47:37] Speaker C: Like, you can. You could be hypnotized. You can be hypnotized reading a book.
[00:47:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:43] Speaker C: Or a letter based on. Right. So. So, yeah, you could be hypnotized by an app, or you could be hypnotized reading an article on the Internet. So I don't know what you mean by hypnotized.
[00:47:53] Speaker B: Are they. Are they ineffective? Or would it be as. Do you think it'd be as effective, though?
[00:47:58] Speaker C: No, I don't either. But. But that's also what we're talking about again. What. What are we talking about? The difference between hypnosis and hypnotherapy. Right. So you can be hypnotized and. And could hypnotherapy done that way? Sure, but it's not going to be as effective. And in fact, if you look at. There's an article and psychotherapy today by Dr. Alfred Barrios where he compares kind of normal psychotherapy and Various kinds of therapy, therapeutic treatments to hypnosis. And from longitudinally learning hypnosis yourself and doing self hypnosis or joining a group and doing group hypnosis, or having sort of one or two sessions with a hypnotist that are individualized versus having like four to six sessions with a hypnotist. And, and when you look at the 97% success rate of about four to six sessions with a hypnotist versus, you know, I can't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but it was like a 67% at like 23 or 24 sessions in terms of psychotherapy and things like that. So it very, very successful in a shorter amount of time.
[00:49:21] Speaker B: The last myth might be a little controversial. I'll let you comment on this. Hypnosis can help you uncover lost memories.
[00:49:30] Speaker C: It can, absolutely. Which is why we have specialists who are forensic hypnotists who do that sort of thing.
[00:49:38] Speaker B: Yeah, you go, I think the memory.
[00:49:42] Speaker C: Is an odd thing. I think it's really, really fasc.
And, and with. If you're wanting to recover lost memories that typically when that's done, it's done right after an event happened. And like a police want to interview a witness and they want to get all of the details, they might employ a forensic hypnotist in order to get all of the details. And typically they won't let that witness talk to anybody else first because it's. Every time you tell a story about what you remember and then you put it back, it changes. And so, so there are different kind of considerations when you're talking about recalling memories using hypnosis. Now, if you're talking about, like recovering childhood memories. So back in the 80s, and I think that's the controversy you're referring to, back in the 80s, there were some inexperienced hypnotists who were doing regression work to work to uncover some childhood memories of things. And what they didn't realize was that because they were not experienced, they were inadvertently using suggestive language. And so they were suggesting memories. And because we're in a heightened state of suggestibility, those suggestions were taken as literal to the brain. And so it led to a whole heap of court cases and some really, really bad press, unfortunately, for hypnosis. But the reality is that, that, that there were some inexperienced hypnotists who were using suggestive language without meaning to. In that way. But I would say, you know, people come to me and they. And sometimes they do want to retrieve some memories or they want to remember things from their Childhood. And perhaps because of their trauma and their heightened emotional sensitivity, they've lost, you know, big swaths and years of their childhood. And they may want to remember because they're, you know, they're seeing certain signs that certain things occurred in their childhood and they want to know what did it was real, did it happen?
And typically I, I, I work on dealing with the client in the moment. And, and because the subconscious takes those memories and represses them for a reason, the subconscious protects us.
[00:52:25] Speaker B: Right?
[00:52:25] Speaker C: That's right. And so, and what I, what I've come to realize in dealing with memories and the, all the various states of consciousness is that when the subconscious realizes that the conscious mind is capable and ready emotionally and willing to handle having those memories back and they're going to be helpful, then they will come back automatically.
Right. Then, Hence. Right. Hence we have. Right. Those memories that, that do come back, repressed memories will just kind of pop up for some people. And that has happened because they've done the work to get to a place where they're open, ready and capable of handling.
And for some reason having that memory back is going to be important and helpful, but otherwise the subconscious is going to safeguard it. And just like, you know, sometimes we have, sometimes we have pain and it's an indication that there's a problem going on with the body. Right. Then I wouldn't want to take that pain away if it's a signal that that person needs to get help. Right. So, and so in, so in this way. Right. I wouldn't want, want to, I wouldn't, it's sort of a signal for that person to get help and I wouldn't want to take that away when that's a part of their healing.
[00:53:56] Speaker B: From my perspective, it's a good point.
Before we wrap up, do you have any, you've already mentioned some authors and some research, but do you have any more resources for people listening? Any, any apps, any more books, any websites, sites, any YouTube channels, anything that people are, who are listening could, could go and research on their own?
[00:54:22] Speaker C: Oh, sure.
I mean, I would say there's of course, the National Guild and ASH and the imdha, but there's also, I mean, so many really good books.
The Elman book is an incredible book. The Hypnosis Handbook. There's also trance work by Michael Yapko.
There's also, you know, just really incredible conferences and conventions. We're having the 75th anniversary of the National Guild of Hypnotist convention near Boston this year, the first weekend in August, I think, 8th 9th, 10th, somewhere around there. Every April. April. In the end of April, William Mitchell does a. The Heartland Hypnosis Conference, and that's in St. Louis, and that is phenomenal. It is a smaller conference and all of the speakers are just so experienced and such great speakers and such friendly people.
It's an incredible conference. And there are many other conferences around as well. I know there's the Mid America Conference Larry Garrett does in Chicago. So he's incredible. And I think looking to these people who are really.
Who have made a name for themselves as hypnotists. Christian Scoresmith up in the west coast, in the Seattle, Portland area. Christian Scoresmith, William Mitchell, Larry Garrett, Lois Herman. I mean, there's just so many really amazing hypnotists and looking to see what are their specialties and, and what, you know, what, what do you want to. What do you want to learn?
[00:56:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that'll help narrow it down a little bit if, if you're wanting to learn about. I mean, I didn't realize there were so many various types until I started researching for the show. I was like, I've got to ask her about this. This is fascinating. Thank you again. It goes by so fast. Thank you again for being on the show. This is just something we have not talked about. And I'm so tickled to have this topic because I think more people, it will open people's minds about this as an option for them along with therapy. You know, when people.
[00:56:42] Speaker C: Well, and I, you know, people who.
[00:56:44] Speaker B: Are desperate sometimes, you know, they feel.
[00:56:46] Speaker C: Like they've absolutely, absolutely 100%.
And, you know, I'm. I'm really happy about the work that I did in North Carolina when I lived there in terms of really giving hypnosis as an additional modality for treatment to so many therapists and counselors. And. And I'm really looking forward to doing that now that I'm here in Alabama.
[00:57:08] Speaker B: So you have a website, Maggie?
[00:57:11] Speaker C: I do. It's Maggie Mensk.com so. And all my information is on there. That's pretty simple. But.
[00:57:19] Speaker B: But you can also K, right? M I N S K. That's right.
[00:57:23] Speaker C: M A G G I E M I N S K. And there's, there's also. You can also find information and get a hold of me through the Balanced Life website, which is the balanced life llc.com.
so. Because that's where I'm an independent contractor. So. Yeah.
[00:57:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you so much. Let me make a few announcements before we go. Don't forget, our shows are recorded and podcasted on the Apple Podcast, audioboom.com and voices.ua.edu. just type in Brain Matters and you'll find some of our past shows. There's also a link to Voices UA Edu on the Counseling Center's website, and that's Counseling UA Edu. I like to thank a few people who made the show possible. So our executive director here at the Counseling center who is always so supportive, Dr. Greg Vanderwaal, my producer and my colleague, Katherine Howell, who is not here this evening, but she'll be back next week. My colleagues here at the Counseling Center, Katherine Ratchford. She is the UA student who edits our show for wvua, the WVUA staff and of course my guest tonight, Maggie Mine Minsk. Don't forget, we're back next week. Join us again at the same time, same place and the topics gonna be. Well, this is an interesting one that I haven't broached at all, but I've needed to, to be honest. Hangxiety, how to deal and prevent hangover anxiety. So I don't know how that's gonna go.
[00:58:46] Speaker C: We'll see.
[00:58:47] Speaker B: I never know how these are gonna go necessarily, but join us next week. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next next week. You've been listening to Brain Matters. Good night.
[00:59:08] Speaker A: This show was not intended as a substitute for professional counseling. Further, the views, opinions and conclusions expressed by the show hosts or their guests are their own and not necessarily those of the University of Alabama, its own officers or trustees. Any views, opinions or conclusions shared on the show do not create a relationship between the host or any guest and any listener, and such a relationship should never be inferred. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, please contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
