[00:00:00] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's CRis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Again for brain matters, the official radio show of the UA Counseling center. We are broadcasting from the campus of the University of Alabama. Good evening. My name is Dr. B. J. Gunther and I'm the host of the show, along with my colleague and producer Catherine Howell, who hopefully will join us in a few minutes. In case you don't know, this show is about mental and physical health issues that affect college students and in particular UA students. So you can listen to us each Tuesday night at 06:00 p.m. On 90.7 fm, or you can listen at wvuafm ua.edu. You can also download the MyTuner radio app and just type in WVUaFM 90.7 to listen to us that way. Also, if you have any ideas for upcoming shows, please email those to me at brainmattersradio at wvuafm ua.edu. Because this is just our third, I believe this is our third show of the spring semester. So we've got lots more needs for ideas for topics. I've got probably shows scheduled out until spring break or a little after spring break, and then after that, I'm going to need some ideas from some new topics. So if you have any and you're listening now and you want to email those to me, it's brainmattersradio at wvuafm ua.edu. And of course, I'll consider using your idea for a show topic. Tonight's topic, we haven't talked about substance abuse in a while. I was trying to remember the last show I did on any kind of substance abuse issues, and I didn't do anything this past fall, and I can't remember doing anything for spring of last year, 2023. So this is a good, timely topic right now, especially since the fraternities and the sorority, well, the fraternities are doing the darties day parties this time of year, and there's a lot of alcohol use abuse. Tonight, our topic is when substance abuse use crosses the line to addiction. Alarmingly, this shift from casual drinking to dependence can happen in a matter of months or for some, even weeks. The speed at which alcohol takes hold varies from person to person, but the progression is often surprisingly swift, leading unsuspecting individuals down a path they never intended to take. Recognizing this quick transition is crucial to understanding and addressing alcohol dependence early. My guest tonight, Charmin Marshall, has been on the show several times. And, Charmin, I might have called you, marshall, is it? Rutherford?
[00:03:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: I'm sorry. Charmin Marshall Rutherford. I just remember you as Charmin Marshall, so I'll always mess that up. So correct me, Charmin Rutherford. Charmin's been a guest on the show. And, Charmin, I cannot remember the topic of the show when you were on. It was a couple of years ago.
[00:03:35] Speaker C: Yeah, the last show I think we did was eating disorders, disordered eating patterns.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: And that's another show topic that I think needs. Really. I think we need to talk about that once a semester, to be honest with you, between that and substance use, we could probably fill up both the semester of shows, to be honest.
[00:04:01] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:04:01] Speaker B: Thank you for being on the show. And tell the listeners again, those who don't know you about yourself, your credentials, why you're interested in this.
[00:04:12] Speaker C: Okay? Okay. My name is Charmin Rutherford, and I'm a licensed professional counselor and the owner of all things new counseling services.
We are a virtual counseling practice for clients in the states of Alabama and in Tennessee. I hold an international advanced alcohol and drug counselor credential, and I'm also on the advisory board of the Alabama School of Alcohol and other drug studies.
I'm passionate about the field of substance use disorders based on my own struggles with alcohol addiction and the long term recovery that I have been blessed to be in. And I just receive such a reward when I see individuals overcome their struggles in this area and their struggles with substances, and they go from being hopeless to hopeful of, that's about me. That's why I do what I do, and I hope to continue to be in this field for a long.
[00:05:17] Speaker B: Sherman, do you think it gives you credibility because you have a history with addiction?
[00:05:24] Speaker C: I think it does.
I think it's very easy for people who are abusing substances or who are addicted to substances to feel like no one understands them or people haven't been through what they've been through. So I think the clients feel that way, that it gives me more credibility with them. I do know counselors and therapists who work with people with substance use disorders, and they do a great job, and they do an excellent job as far as the knowledge base and the skills and the skill sets. But there is something about sitting across from somebody that, you know, has been through some things like you have.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: I totally agree. I've told this story before. I worked when I was a student and get my master's degree in counseling. I worked at the hospital on the chemical dependency unit, had absolutely no experience with chemical dependency. That's just where I was placed. And I literally was thrown to the wolves. And I remember a lady there. This was a 28 day program that people would come directly from the ambulance or the emergency room to us. And I remember her. She got so mad at me. And I was just a student learning and doing group therapy with another co leading with another licensed professional who was in recovery and had been for years.
And this woman literally verbally attacked me because I was not an addict. And I did not see that coming. And we ended up talking it out and working it out. And I explained to her, I said, you know what? I don't have experience as an addict. And I cannot say I know how you feel, but I do have coping skills. I think that maybe you don't possess, and I might could help you with that. And that's how we talked it through.
But that was my first issue with addiction and working with people who are addicted, and it really opened my eyes. Charmin.
[00:07:43] Speaker C: Yeah, it does. And just for therapists to be empathetic and be willing to listen and hear someone's story, I think that goes a very long way in building that therapeutic relationship with too.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: You said you worked at Bradford? Bradford Health Services, for those who are listening, is an inpatient and an outpatient treatment facility for addiction services.
[00:08:11] Speaker C: Right, right.
I worked there many years ago. It's probably been over 20. Well, it's probably been about 20 years ago that I worked there. So it's been a little while.
[00:08:26] Speaker B: What are the early signs of alcohol dependence?
[00:08:31] Speaker C: Okay. Some of the early signs of alcohol dependence are when individuals feel a strong need or urge to use alcohol or other substances.
Those with alcohol use disorder may have problems controlling their drinking. They're drinking more than they wanted to. They're drinking faster than they wanted to, and they continue to use alcohol even when it causes problems or they begin to have withdrawal symptoms, when they rapidly decrease or stop drinking. But the key symptoms are the strong urges to use and the cravings to drink. And also another key factor is the increased levels of tolerance. So for someone who started out drinking and they used to could drink two or three beers and have a buz, and suddenly it's taken a six pack or a twelve pack, that would be a big indicator that there's alcohol dependency going on there. So that's how it starts and that's where it leads to.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And you see so many students, I have seen so many students who binge drink, and I want to get kind of your, I guess, opinion or your thoughts on binge drinking, how dangerous that is, because I think some students feel like, well, if I only drink on the weekends, then I don't have any kind of a problem because I'm able to go to class and I make a 4.0 because I do have students who have done that. But they really have a problem with substances.
[00:10:14] Speaker C: Absolutely. And it is difficult for an individual to realize they have a problem when they are being successful in their academics, when they are doing the student life thing and when they're working a part time job or a full time job or whatever, when they are still being successful, it's difficult to realize that it is a problem. But when an individual starts experiencing that hanxiety that they get that that is a very real thing that students or anyone really, when they suddenly stop drinking and they just feel their momentum and their energy level and everything just go down, that's a big indicator that the binge drinking is going too far.
I think socially everything is so, alcohol use is so ingrained in a lot of the things that go along with being a student. There's wine Wednesdays and all of this.
But I have seen binge drinking lead to devastating consequences.
It is something people need to be aware of.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: Is there a difference between, I interuse the word substance use and substance abuse? I mean, is there a difference between those terms?
[00:11:46] Speaker C: I believe so, because some people are able to drink successfully and stop. Some people can go out with their friends and say, I'm going to have a couple of drinks and I'm going to stop and I'm going to go home.
Some people are successful in doing that. When you are not able to do that, or when you set out to drink two or three drinks and it becomes six or eight or more or even four or five, that's a key indicator is when you're drinking more than what you intend to drink and you are drinking more frequently than you intend to drink.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:28] Speaker C: So there is that. People can drink successfully.
There's just a lot of us that are not able to do that.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: You can't really predict that. I think some people, I remember, we used to talk a lot about if it is genetic or runs in the family, but I don't know, I mean, I haven't talked about that with anybody in a long time, and so I'm kind of out of the loop on that. And I don't necessarily think that that means that you will be an alcoholic if your great grandfather was an alcoholic. For instance.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: Right.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: When I was researching for the show, and I like to do a little bit of research before we start talking. I read that substance use becomes addiction through a five step process. Have you heard of this? And if so, what are the steps?
[00:13:26] Speaker C: Yeah, it's kind of based on the quality, I mean, the quantity of usage. But basically, those five stages are experiment. Okay. They start out as experimentation. So that would be the first stage.
And it can be really difficult to recognize, because there does seem to be an idea that it's kind of a rite of passage for people to try substances or alcohol. And if you're doing these very sporadically and you're not having any kind of problems, that's usually the experimentation phase, and people aren't paying attention to what you're doing, and you're not having negative consequences. So that is, the first stage, is just experimenting with substances, using things for the first or the second time. But what people don't understand is that oftentimes, and with certain substances, that first time can be all it takes. So while the first stage is experimentation, it is not likely, but I have seen it go from experimentation to addiction.
The second stage is regular use, and that is during the stage when individuals have usually incorporated their substance use into their everyday lives. So they may still be functioning like we were talking about their grade. Gpas may be really good, they may be meeting all of their obligations as far as socially and at jobs and employment and things like that. But this is when the use starts to become problematic.
And when individuals are in this stage, they'll do things like, they'll say to themselves, well, I'm going to go two weeks and not drink or not use. And if I can do that, that means I don't have a problem. So they'll go two weeks, and then when those two weeks are up, they go right back into the same pattern.
That is the second stage. The third stage is risky use, and this is when it's kind of starting to blur into the dependence part. This is where you'll start to notice changes in an individual's behavior. It may become alarming to their loved ones. And at this point, this is when people, if they know someone who are in this risky use stage of alcohol or drug use, that they should start trying to urge them to get some help or move them towards treatment.
The fourth stage is dependence. And this is by the time an individual gets to this stage, both their body and mind are reliant on the substances. So not only are they usually physically addicted by this point, but there's that psychological and the physiological component of the dependence, and then that leads into the addiction. And the continual use of substances which leads to addiction is where you start seeing the negative consequences. People will have three, four, five duis. They'll have several pis, but they will still somehow convince themselves, they'll be in denial that there's even a problem.
I would say if you notice anyone who's gone from risky use, or you notice their regular use becoming more risky and more frequent at that point, that's when someone needs to intervene, because it can go downhill fast.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: Well, and that's kind of the tricky part, I think, with college students, because you see that a lot, and a lot of times I have had students tell me, and even parents tell me, well, they're in college. That's what they do. They're a college student. And that is a dangerous, slippery slope to me because of what you just described.
I had written down a question. How long does it take to get addicted? And I don't know if you can answer that. I would imagine it's different for different people.
[00:18:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Time frames for developing an addiction varies from individual to individual and depending on the substance. Like I said, students can become addicted to some substances from their very first use and then with other substances, it may take an increased amount of time, level of tolerance has to develop, and things like that. But like stated earlier, factors that contribute to addiction include family history of substance abuse or mental illness, the individual's history of mental illness, or environmental factors such as just being around others who are using substances and then having increased cravings and urges.
Like you said, it's a slippery slope, and it can happen very quickly for some people. For some people, it doesn't happen as quickly. But no one is immune from substance addiction or dependence.
There's no one who sets out. No one sets out in life to lose everything and want to be an addict. That's exactly right.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: It's dangerous. It's risky. Let's take our first break, Charmin. And when we come back, I have several email questions, if you're willing to answer those, just kind of like, spontaneously. There's some good questions. I'm reading over them right now. So if you'll hold on and keep listening, we'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7 McCapstone tuscaloosa.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest.
[00:20:30] Speaker C: Emergency rooms on 90.7 the Capstone.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: I'm Dr. B. J. Guthher, and my guest tonight is Charmin Rutherford. Charmin is a licensed professional counselor. She's licensed in both Alabama and Tennessee. She has a private practice that is telecounseling only from what I understand. Right, Charmin?
[00:21:03] Speaker C: That's correct, yeah.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: And we're talking tonight about how substance use can turn into addiction, and it can happen for different people, depending on the substance, fairly quickly. If you're not careful and pay attention to what's going on, I've got several email questions, charmin, so I'm going to just start right off the cuff. Is it true that you can only drink once a year and still be an alcoholic?
[00:21:32] Speaker C: That is a tricky question.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: I've never heard of that.
[00:21:37] Speaker C: I was going to say most alcoholics that I have worked with, and I myself, could not even do that if I wanted to.
Most of my clients couldn't even do that if they wanted to. But there is. If that craving is strong enough, and if your behavioral change, if a significant behavioral change occurs, say if that person drinks once a year, and every time they drink, they become very aggressive, very volatile, very hostile, then that is probably indicative that they have the personality and the genetics in them with the potential to be an alcoholic.
I would say the drinking part of it isn't necessarily what would make them the alcoholic, but it would be the behavioral. And that shift in their personality or in their behavior.
[00:22:42] Speaker B: Yes, I have learned, and I don't know if you learned it this way, too, but, I mean, I've always learned and seen with the places I've worked, that relapse can happen very quickly on not even alcoholic beverages, per se, but on even like, nyquil or mouthwash, like that has alcohol in it. So that's scary right there. And I've never heard of that. I've never seen it that way. That's interesting. The next question, we've kind of touched on tolerance you mentioned tolerance. Increased levels of tolerance is how it turns from substance use to addiction. This person says, what role does tolerance play in addiction?
[00:23:30] Speaker C: The role that tolerance plays in addiction, it kind of takes you back to those five stages that we were talking about. For example, if someone is in the experimentation stage, they are not going to have a level of tolerance.
They're not going to be the person who, at 02:00 a.m. Is still wanting to go out and party. They're usually going to be the first person ready to go. So the tolerance aspect comes into play, because that's when you start to really see if someone has built up, if they are becoming dependent or if they are fully addicted, because the tolerance is where that's kind of the main.
What is the word I'm looking for? That is the main indicator that someone is addicted. Is that what's the tolerance level? And they need more and more because their body gets so used to having a substance in it that they don't feel normal when that substance is absent from the body. So that's the role that tolerance.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: And you know what?
Why is it that people, it's almost like they brag about their tolerance level? I've had students say, oh, I can drink six beers.
Like it's a ride of therapist. Red flags go up in my head. But for them, it's like, oh, I can handle my alcohol.
[00:25:05] Speaker C: Right?
And it is because for a lot of people that don't have a drinking problem, they brag about things like that. There are people that can drink a six pack of beer and then never drink again. Like we talked about, the person that drinks once a year. But if those behavior changes occur, if the tolerance level is there and it goes from six beers to twelve beers, or from twelve beers to a case, that's how quickly it can happen.
I don't know where I was going on that tangent.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: I'll transition into the next question, which is to vaping. Does vaping and using synthetic drugs such as delta eight increase the chances of becoming addicted?
[00:26:06] Speaker C: It can, yes, vaping. I will confess that I do not know that much about vaping just because cigarettes were around when I was young. So I am aware of clients that I have had, clients that vaped and really were addicted to it and could not stop the use of delta eight. The use of delta nine in some people with certain personality types and certain environmental factors and certain mental illness propensities, those things can set someone up for addiction. It's not always, but it can be. That's kind of a dangerous.
I would advise anyone who has a history of mental illness or who has a tendency to not want to feel their feelings and their emotions. A lot of people are doing substances to avoid their feelings and to avoid any negative emotions that they don't want to deal with. So if that is a reason that a student or anyone is using those substances, then that may be something they need to re examine and see if that's something that they need to be doing. But it absolutely can lead to addiction.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: I did a show early on when I started doing this show, I did a controversial show. I didn't realize how controversial it really was until it got kind of crazy and it was on live radio. And you can probably go back and find that
[email protected]. If you're interested. But it was basically, I had a twelve step therapist versus a harm reduction therapist. And now you hear more talk and treatment about harm reduction. But back then, several years ago, you didn't hear a whole lot about harm reduction. That's not the way I was taught either. So what's your opinion on that as a treatment option?
[00:28:14] Speaker C: I bet that did stir some feathers when you brought that up.
Myself, I do believe in a harm reduction model. I believe in medication assisted treatment for individuals who are struggling.
And a lot of people who don't believe in the harm reduction model and who are opposed to it, they say, well, you're not really clean. You're just trading one substance for another.
While that can be true, medication assisted treatment or medication assisted therapy that can help individuals who are not functioning, who can't hold a job, who are living on the streets, who have nothing, it can help them to live a normal life. So if you are using drugs intravenously and you are living on the streets, obviously that's not something that the majority of students are, a lot of students even know anything about, but that is something that happens. And the harm reduction model, if you can get someone on suboxone and make them be able to go to class and be able to go to work and to function and to be engaged in therapy and to go to twelve step meetings and do all the things, that is a success in my book.
[00:29:51] Speaker B: Yes, it's being monitored. It's not like you're just being given unlimited amounts of another drug. It's being monitored and regulated.
[00:30:02] Speaker C: Right. But I do believe individuals who are engaged in medication assisted treatment that they do need to be engaged in therapy or in a twelve step program or both.
There are many ways to recovery. My path wasn't like everybody else's.
I feel like mine was a little bit different, but we all feel like that. But that's what makes recovery so wonderful, is that there are so many roads and so many paths to recovery. So that might have been getting ahead of myself talking about recovery, but I do believe in the harm reduction model. I do believe it works. I've seen it work. And just because someone is on a maintenance amount of medication assisted treatment, that doesn't mean they're going to be on that amount of medication for the remainder of their life. For some people it is. For some people, it will be a lifelong thing, but for other people, it doesn't have to be.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: It doesn't.
For those who are listening or not aware, we have substance abuse treatment. We have the counseling center here where I'm a staff therapist, and you can always start here with us, but we also have the collegiate and intervention services department here on campus. We're in the same building and they work solely with addiction services, and they're wonderful. And so we've had therapist and the director on our show in the past. I probably need to invite them again sometime soon just to talk about their services. But Charmin, let's take another quick break and then when we come back, I want to ask you about cross addiction. And then we've got some more email questions about next steps. So hang on. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7 the capstone.
[00:32:04] Speaker C: You.
[00:32:17] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: Hey, you're back listening to brain matters on 90.7 the capstone. I'm BJ Gunther. We're talking tonight about when substance use turns into addiction, and my guest is licensed professional counselor Charman Rutherford. And we ended up talking about some options, you know, harm reduction treatment options, which if you're not aware, harm reduction is just a different form of treatment, that there's research about harm reduction and it's successful. So there is some controversy. I understand that, but I think you have to have some options here because certain things don't work for certain people who are addicted. And so you have to have all kinds of options for people. Shermin, tell us about cross addiction. What is cross addiction? And do you believe it exists?
[00:33:50] Speaker C: Yes, it exists. I know it exists. I see it every day.
Cross addiction is when someone is able to stop using one substance, but their use of another substance increases. So, for example, if you have someone who is in the regular use or risky use stage of using alcohol or drugs, say you have someone who is in the risky use of cocaine and they are using cocaine and they're drinking, well, they decide, I'm going to try, I'm going to go, I'm going to stop using cocaine.
I'm going to do my best to stop using coke. So they may be able to do that for a period of time, but then what can happen is their alcohol use will pick up or they'll begin to drink twice as much as what they were doing when they were using the cocaine. So that's how cross addiction happens. It's trading one substance for another. And it can be anything from a lot of time. And also there's a hierarchy, BJ, and I'm sure you've probably experienced this when you've been working with clients. You'll talk with clients, or I have, and I'll say, have you ever used crack cocaine? And they'll say something like, well, no, I only use powder.
[00:35:30] Speaker B: Like, it's better. Yeah.
[00:35:34] Speaker C: Then you'll say to someone, well, have you ever snorted anything? And they'll say, no, I would never do that. I only smoke it, you know? So there's like a drug hierarchy that people use, and cross addiction is a real thing. The drug hierarchy is a real thing. And I definitely have seen the cross addiction happen. It is trading drug for another.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: For real. It is for real. And I think sometimes people use it. Like you said, it's almost like an excuse.
[00:36:10] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: Let me read another email question. And you may or may not can answer this, but what are some good self assessment tools students can use to monitor their substance use? Are there any?
[00:36:27] Speaker C: Yeah, there are some. I can't think of the names of them.
I'm thinking of the state assessments because that's what I'm so familiar with using in the office.
[00:36:44] Speaker B: We may have some on our counseling center website. It's counseling.
[00:36:50] Speaker C: I think now that you say that there are some on that website and basic questions just like, do you drink more than one or two drinks at a time? Do you drink more than two days a week?
It'll be very simple questions like that that would be very nonthreatening to someone to just take an honest look at themselves and figure out where am I on this continuum of use? Am I meaning or maybe am I.
[00:37:27] Speaker B: Glad you mentioned that, about people getting defensive or not taking offense, necessarily, but because I'm a counselor. You're a counselor. We confront people. Or I do. I can confront people. But what if you're listening and you have a friend, or you're dating somebody who you feel like has a problem and it's turning into addiction? How does that person approach their friend or their partner?
[00:37:54] Speaker C: You have to approach people from a very non judgmental stance. I had people in my life that knew well, really, I knew I had a problem long before anybody had to tell me I knew I had a problem. So if you have someone in your life that's struggling, chances are they've thought they may have a problem or they may have recognized that they have a problem. But you have to approach that person with love, or if it's a friend, you approach them as a friend and just say, look, I've noticed we're going out four or five nights a week, and every time we go out, you're drinking a lot, and why don't we stay in? Why don't we do something different? And if that person is very defensive, a lot of times they don't want to hear it. They're not ready to hear it. All you can do is plant that seed for someone.
Why don't we do this self assessment and just see?
Why don't we see about it? Why don't we call someone?
Why don't we go by the collegiate recovery center and see what they.
There are so many resources that college students have now that they didn't have back when I was in school.
Just approach the person from a place of friendship, from a place of love. And sometimes you have to love people, even when it's tough. And that's where you have to confront people sometimes, maybe when they're not ready to be confronted.
[00:39:39] Speaker B: It's true.
Many times people have gotten defensive with me, even when I suggest there might be an issue. But like you said at the beginning of the show, there are markers. And sometimes it may be. I remember when I worked at the hospital, we used to do an activity where we would sit down and write out people. The group members would write out how much financially, what all they lost and how much added up. And sometimes it would be in the thousands, like it would be a wrecked car, it might be an arrest, it might be a divorce.
So you might have to ask about things like that.
[00:40:26] Speaker C: Yeah, those are key indicators. So the arrest, if you've been involved with the legal system, if every time you drink, you end up in a fight or you're getting fault charges.
Right. And the blackouts, that's another indicator. We didn't really talk about that, but that is another indicator that has crossed over. And a lot of people start out drinking and they drink until they black out, and then that's their pattern of drinking, and they think that's normal or that's what most people do, but it's not.
That's not normal to do.
[00:41:11] Speaker B: You know, as counselors, charmin and I, well, therapists use the DSM, which is the diagnostic and statistical manual, to give a diagnostic impression when someone comes in to see us. And the DSM doesn't have a completely different diagnosis that distinguishes between substance abuse and substance addiction, but it does allow us to use specifiers such as mild, moderate and severe for the use disorder diagnosis with specific substances. And these specifiers coordinate with the number of symptoms, like we talked about, that someone is experiencing, and then gives you the option of whether or not it's early or sustained remission. And I know that's a lot of psycho babble talk right there. Do you think there should be more specific and separate diagnoses in the DSM to distinguish between abuse and addiction?
[00:42:10] Speaker C: I think there could be.
The reason I believe there isn't is that it's so tricky and it's so hard to tell because one person may be exhibiting the same symptoms as another person, and one person have the five duis, they've got the assault charges, or they've got the public intoxication charges.
The same thing can look very different in individuals. So I think that's why it's not more specified. I don't know.
[00:42:57] Speaker B: It gives you a little flexibility, I guess, in the diagnosis.
[00:43:02] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. I do think that is something that needs to be looked at when the next revision comes around. But I do think it is allow for that room for differentiation.
[00:43:18] Speaker B: There's an email question that asks, once someone recognizes that their substance use has turned into addiction, what's the next best step?
[00:43:29] Speaker C: I would encourage them to reach out for help. They can call.
There are a lot of resources online. There's SAMHSA, which is the substance abuse, the substance abuse and mental health association in Alabama. So there's that. There's all kinds of twelve step programs. Find an AA meeting, an NA meeting, a CA meeting. Call a therapist, go to the collegiate Recovery center, go to the counseling center, reach out to your parents, if you don't want your parents to know, get help some way. Do whatever it takes to get help. And I always tell my clients, just the way you did whatever it took to get your drugs or alcohol, you need to do whatever it takes to get yourself in recovery and get better.
I would just recommend they reach out. There's so many resources, and if nothing else, they can call the counseling center. Call me.
There's so many resources.
[00:44:43] Speaker B: That's right. If you're a student and you're listening, you can call here. The counseling center is 205-348-3863 you can also call the collegiate recovery and intervention services on campus, go to their website to find their phone number. And even if you're not a student, you could still call. I've had people in the community call here and we've given them a referral or help with resources because they just didn't know where else to call. We're not going to just not talk to you because you're not a student. We're going to give you some help at some point. So if you need help and you're listening, most definitely call here. And Charmin, I looked up SAMHSA.
It's the substance abuse and Mental Health services Administration. It's through the federal government, but their website has a number for you to actually text. Nine, eight, eight in case you needed help with anything. So that's a wonderful resource.
[00:45:41] Speaker C: Yeah, there are so many resources. There's so many ways to get help. And like you were saying, getting help in 2024 looks a lot different than it did in 1995, or getting help looks a lot different now. And I think we're doing a good job. I know that myself and UBJ and the collegiate recovery program, I know we are working so hard to get rid of the stigma that goes along with substance abuse and addiction and to help individuals feel that this is not a moral defect, this is not a moral failing of any kind because they've developed an addiction. But it is something that happens, and we need to be real about it, we need to talk about it, and we need to treat it like the issue that it is and help people when they are ready for help.
[00:46:38] Speaker B: That's exactly right. That's a good way to put it. Charmin, thank you so much for being on the show. The hour always goes by quick. I don't even think I got the last break in because we were a little bit late starting. But I appreciate you being on the show so much, and I appreciate you sharing your personal information charmin, because some people just don't feel comfortable doing that. But like I said at the beginning of the show, I think it gives you more credibility, and I think you get further talking to somebody who is struggling with addiction when they understand that you have been in their shoes.
[00:47:17] Speaker C: Right. Well, I had people that blessed me and helped me along my journey, and I just want to pass that along to others because there is life after addiction. There's a beautiful life after addiction, and it's there. You just have to want it and reach out for.
[00:47:36] Speaker B: Right? That's right. Let me remind our listeners that our shows are recorded and podcasted on Apple Podcast audioboom.com and voices ua.edu. You just type in brain matters and you'll find some of our past shows. There's also a link to voices ua.edu on our counseling center's website, and that's counseling ua.edu. I want to mention an upcoming event that's happening February the 26th through March the first. It's called recharge week. It's kind of a week to relax a little bit and have a good time.
It's sponsored by student tide against suicide. And we're going to be involved. The counseling center is always involved, but I'm personally going to be involved in the cookout and the kickball tournament, which is on Thursday, February the 29th, which is an extra day for us since it's leap year. So if you want to come out and meet me, I would love to meet any of you who are listening. And I don't know how I got roped into a kickball tournament, but hopefully we'll have a good time and we don't get injured, but it sounds like a fun time, so come out and join us. That's February 26 through March the first. There's stuff going on all week, and you can go online. You can probably go on our website and check out the week long event. I want to thank the people who've made our show possible, and especially Dr. Greg Vanderwald. He's our executive director here at the counseling center. My producer is Catherine Howell. She was supposed to join us today. I don't know what happened, but Catherine might have had, she's also a therapist and she might have had a crisis situation. My colleagues here at the counseling center's WBUA staff who edit our show every week, and my guest tonight, Charmin Rutherford. Don't forget we're on next week, and our topic is an interesting one that I've never talked about, how tattoos help people heal. So that should be a fascinating show. So join us again, same time, same place. Thanks again for listening to brain matters and have a good night.
[00:49:49] Speaker A: This show was not intended as a substitute for professional counseling. Further, the views, opinions and conclusions expressed by the show hosts or their guests are their own and not necessarily those of the University of Alabama, Emma, its officers or trustees. Any views, opinions or conclusions shared on the show do not create a relationship between the host or any guest and any listener, and such a relationship should never be inferred. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, please contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's Cris Service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company.
