Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's Cris service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911. Go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Again for brain matters, the official radio show of the UA Counseling center. We are broadcasting from the campus of the University of Alabama. Good evening. My name is Dr. B. J. Gunther and I'm the host of the show along with my colleague and producer, Catherine Howell. And in case you don't know, this show is about mental and physical health issues that affect college students and in particular UA students. So you can listen to us each Tuesday night at 06:00 p.m. On 90.7 FM, or you can listen online at wvuafm ua.edu. You can also download the MyTuner radio app and just type in WVUaFM 90.7 every week. I always ask for idea topics for upcoming shows, so if you have any ideas for upcoming show topics, please email those to me at brainmattersradio at wbuafm ua.edu. Because we've got most of our shows already scheduled and planned, but I still need about five or six more topics and even if we don't use them this semester, we don't do shows in the summer. We will start back in the fall and use them in the fall. So if you think anything is off limits, don't be worried because we have done all kinds of shows. This is going on my 11th spring, I think is what it is, and we have done just about everything. And we've even revisited some of the topics like depression, stress management, test anxiety that are common among college students. So don't be hesitant and just email those topics to brainmattersradio at wvuafm ua.edu. I'm really excited about this show. It's a unique topic. It's very interesting and we've wanted to do this for a while. So I'm tickled that we're doing this because when I mentioned the show topic to my colleagues and some other people yesterday and today, they were like, this sounds really cool. Tonight we're going to talk about how tattoos can help people heal. Sometimes described as the windows to the psyche, tattoos are often telling an important story through art that isn't expressed in words and sometimes used to discuss body art as a way of opening up conversations about other important issues or life events. My guest tonight is Dr. Vinta Mehta. Dr. Mehta is a clinical psychologist and a journalist. She was formerly the development producer and science editor of PBS's this Emotional Life. And she just told me she did an interview about this for another show in Oregon last week. So maybe this is a popular topic right now. I don't know if the way I found you, Dr. Mehta, was an article I read for Psychology today when I was researching. And so that's how I reached out to you. Thanks for being on the oh, it's.
[00:03:32] Speaker C: Good to be with you. Thank you for having me.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Tell the listeners a little bit just about yourself, your interest in the topic, and your credentials.
[00:03:41] Speaker C: Sure. So I am a clinical psychologist and a writer. I'm based in Washington, DC. I work with people who are struggling with depression, anxiety, adjustment disorder, and healthy identity development. I do a lot of work with building resilience and strengths, so that is mostly what I do. I also blog for Psychology today, and I'm writing a nonfiction book on attachment theory. So I've got a lot of things going on, but it's all really wonderful. There are just so many wonderful things you can do in this field.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: How did you choose the topic? Did someone approach you about this topic, or did you just come up with this on your own because you had clients who you've talked to? What was it?
[00:04:32] Speaker C: It was clients, actually. Your intuition? There is spot lot. I'm Gen X, in full disclosure, and a lot of my clients are millennials or a bit younger. And I come from a generation where if you had a tattoo, it was going to be, for lack of a better phrase, people were just going to look down on you. There was a stigma associated with it. So it's really interesting to see people not that much younger than me, 1015 years, and had a completely different point of view for this generation. And younger tattoos were adornment, like earrings.
It was something that they felt was a very beautiful expression of themselves. But as a psychologist, what I would say, what was so fascinating to me is that when we started talking about their tattoos. So you might not see something when it's winter and there's like long sleeves and sweaters, and then spring would come and you might see something on an arm or a leg that you wouldn't normally see, and then it became clinical material. So it was essentially when you started therapy, it's tell me the story of who you are. But then it was almost, tell me the story of your tattoo. And it just opened up even more clinical material.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Yeah, back in one, I joke about this. You only saw military members with tattoos. It was really unheard of that you saw many, especially women. You would never see women with tattoos. And now I have students coming in and they're planning their next tattoo, and we talk about that sometimes. Sometimes it is a point of interest for our session.
[00:06:24] Speaker C: Again, you can work with it as clinical material, as if, though, if you had a client who is an artist and they wanted to show you their painting and what it expressed about their interior life, that might be difficult to express in words, or it's a way to be able to engage people in an event that's very important to them, or an issue that might be very important to them.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: What are some of the reasons, some of the inspirations for people getting tattoos?
[00:06:53] Speaker C: Oh, gosh, it's a range. It's a great question. It's a range. But I would say the common denominator is it's almost always something very meaningful and profound for the individual.
So it can range from, say, a memorial tattoo, remembering and honoring somebody who was very important to them, or it could be an event that was really challenging, that they overcame, and there was a post traumatic growth coming out of the event, and so they want to remember and honor what they were able to get through.
It might be something that connects them to a loved one in their lives.
I've had clients and even just people that I know who will have a tattoo that was perhaps designed by their spouse, but usually it's around something that was very meaningful and kind of like weighty, if you will, for the person.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: Yeah. When I was reading, I always read articles to try to prepare for the show. And one of the articles I read talks about, there are cynics, of course, but cynics might argue that the increased uptake, and I'm reading from this article, is a superficial fad based purely on aesthetic appeal of tattoos. And I'm sure there are some people that that's what they do. It's not a big deal. But this professor, who is also a psychologist in the UK, I believe he argued that most people, given the permanence of a tattoo and the pain that's involved, to be honest, the planning that often goes into getting a tattoo, it's very difficult to just conceptualize tattooing as a fashion accessory.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: I completely agree.
It's a very important form of expression that I do wonder if people who grew up with tattoos being something to be, that there was a stigma associated with it. If they're going to understand the importance of the expression, they just see it in a different way.
This is something that prisoners and deviants have. But those days are done.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Those days are gone. And in this same article, really in the same paragraph, it talks about the historical context of tattoos, the historical and cultural context of tattoos, and it mentions finding. Let me see. The oldest definitive proof of body art comes from a 5300 year old body of a man who remained frozen in a glacier in Italy until it was discovered by two hikers in 1991. He bore 61 tattoos of geometric designs across his left wrist, across his body. So, ancient body art dating from at least 3000 years ago has been found in humans in Egypt, in Russia, in China, in Chile. So this is not anything new. To have your body covered in tattoos, and I'm sure it meant something different for those people.
[00:10:02] Speaker C: It's an incredible thing. I mean, we kind of think of tattoos maybe going back to the time of sailors. I think that in the west, that became more popularized, I think it was sailors who had gone to areas like Bali or from a western point of view, these faraway places where tattooing was much more common, and then brought it back with them on their voyages, and then brought it to the west.
But again, that was kind of considered, oh, well, that's just a sailor thing.
That's not something that anybody would do.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I mentioned it to a coworker this morning, what the show was going to be on, because she was asking me about it, and she said, I think it was her grandfather.
It was common when people in the military, I guess, sailors, would go below the equator. That's when you get a tattoo and you come back, and that shows that was a symbol that you had gone below the equator.
I never knew that, and I didn't come across that in my research. I was reading.
[00:11:07] Speaker C: That's so interesting again, and it shows the psychological concept of signaling, that tattoos can serve a signaling function to other people. Here's who I am. This is something that's important to me, and I'm signaling this to you.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: Let's take a quick break, and then when we come back, I've got a few email questions, if you're willing to take those impromptu. So you're listening to brain matters on 90.7, the capstone.
[00:11:47] Speaker C: Tuscaloosa.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: Hey, you're back, listening to brain matters on 90.7 the capstone. I'm B. J. Gunther, and we're talking tonight with Dr. Venta Mehta, and she is a clinical psychologist who I discovered the topic for tonight is how tattoos can help people heal. And Dr. Mehta had written an article in psychology today. If you're listening and you're interested, and really the title of the article is I think it was five ways tattoos can help people heal. So can you quickly list those five ways tattoos?
[00:12:57] Speaker C: I would have to get that article out.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: Let me help you. It's simple.
Some of it's a little bit about what we've already talked about, but basically the first one you listed, exposing hidden mental scars to gain public recognition. And I don't think that was meant necessarily in a negative way. I think it's basically to maybe even offer people to be able to see your tattoo and maybe even ask you about it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. That might have been what you mean.
[00:13:36] Speaker C: Well, just to back up a little bit, that article was a summation of someone else's research.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:13:44] Speaker C: It's not my five ways. It's the five ways that was discovered by this study, which I then summarized for my blog post.
I think that that was the way in which it was met, that there was a way in which it was to be able to help camouflage, like literally camouflage or to express something, to be able to take back some kind of control over their bodies and to express something new about themselves.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: Well, and also in the context of the article, it focused more on body art that helps survivors cope with trauma in particular.
[00:14:19] Speaker C: Yes. And that's something quite a lot in my practice, because I do work a lot with trauma, that it is very often I actually can think of people who got tatoos while they were in therapy with me, and that was their choice to get a tattoo because of the trauma work that we had been doing.
[00:14:39] Speaker B: I hear you. Let's take a first email question. And it is along the lines of trauma. So here it is. I understand there has been some research on the benefit of someone getting a tattoo to help heal from trauma, but are there also mental health risk? And if so, when would you advise against someone getting a tattoo to mark a traumatic event in their life?
[00:15:04] Speaker C: Oh, gosh, that's a great question.
I don't think that there's an easy answer to it. I would say that I think that it would be important to feel like that you were regulated in making that decision.
So I think that if you're still struggling with dysregulation and that there is still lack of clarity or a numbness, I think that when you make a decision like that, you really want to have your full faculties back before making such a big decision that is usually permanent.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: Do you ever have any clients who voice regret? I'm just curious.
[00:15:47] Speaker C: Oh, gosh, great question. I have not heard of anybody having, whether it be in my practice or in my life, people seem to make a very thoughtful decision about this is a very meaningful thing that I want to do.
In what I see, it has really added more to their sort of. It sort of adds a fullness to who.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: One thing we haven't mentioned yet is the cost. They can be extremely expensive, and I did not realize this. It depends on if they have color or if they're just black and white, the size, the artist. So there's a lot of factors that go into choosing a tattoo.
[00:16:27] Speaker C: Yes.
Again, as you mentioned, the researcher earlier, that these are thoughtful decisions that take time and planning and are usually not of an impulsive nature. So to go back to the email question, I think it's just really important that people not make an impulsive decision about something that would have permanence.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: How does a tattoo affect someone's body image?
[00:16:55] Speaker C: I think that if they feel good about the tattoo, I think that it's taking control over your appearance and how you come into a social interaction, presenting yourself in the way that you want other people to see you. So I think that there can be a lot of feelings of control or reclamation in that.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Yeah. In one of these articles I read, it mentioned one study that actually, let's see, that. Actually talked about this and that it helped people feel better about themselves.
[00:17:35] Speaker C: I think for people, again, it's a very beautiful thing, like if they were wearing earrings or makeup or jewelry or the kinds of clothes that they want to wear.
How do you want to adorn yourself? And some people want to adorn themselves with a tattoo that they feel is very beautiful or meaningful to them.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: Are there different differences in personalities between people who don't get tattoos and people who do get tattoos?
[00:18:04] Speaker C: I think that there is, but I think that it is. Okay, we're walking on a slippery slopery. We're going to get into some statistics here. But if you take a big pool of people, you will find things like that people with tattoos are higher on the personality trait of openness, or that there may be more impulsivity or that there may be more mental health issues. But when you start actually breaking that down by generation, those differences begin to evaporate a bit. So I think it really depends on what generation of people that you're talking about, because, again, more younger people are getting tattoos. So you have a much bigger demographic of who it is who's participating in these studies, right.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: I have several students who over the years have gotten tattoos and hidden them from their parents. And to this day, I wonder what happened.
[00:19:05] Speaker C: Sometimes, I don't know.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: They graduate and they haven't told them.
[00:19:08] Speaker C: Would love to be on a fly on the wall for that one.
[00:19:13] Speaker B: Here's another good email question. This is so interesting. Since tattoos have the potential to be painful, what role can I think they meant to say, what role does that pain play in the healing process, or does it. Oh, gosh.
[00:19:29] Speaker C: Again, I think that would be a very individual thing. I mean, I think that it might be. Let me put it this way. I think there are going to be some people who are like, I don't want to deal with the pain.
They don't want that. I think that there might be a subset of people who feel that it might almost serve, like, the way that cutting can make people feel a bit alive or like it has a station seeking element to it. It would not surprise me if there was a subset of people who were kind of addicted to that kind of the aliveness that the pain makes well.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: And that was the next question is, can tatoos also be a form of engaging in self harm?
[00:20:10] Speaker C: I think that, again, they can be depending on the individual and the motivation of the person getting the tattoo.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Well, and you mentioned addiction.
I suspect there are some people. I'm wondering if there are some people who become addicted to getting tattoos. I don't know what the reason would be. Maybe the pain, maybe the attention they get from the tattoos. I don't know.
[00:20:44] Speaker C: I think that those would probably be the major ones. Let me show you my new tattoo. Let me tell you more about myself. Let other people see me and then also the pain involved. Again, for some people, there is an aliveness that comes about when they feel pain.
[00:21:01] Speaker B: How would you confront someone if you felt like, as a therapist, one of your clients were becoming addicted to tattoos? Would that be maladaptive to. I don't know. I've never had that happen.
[00:21:15] Speaker C: I think it's tricky because unlike something like drug or alcohol abuse, it is obviously detrimental. So I think that questioning what is the reason for getting another tattoo? How do you feel when you get that tattoo?
What do you think that getting it would add to your life? And asking questions around the motivation for getting it and what they imagine it would be like once they had it. How will life be different if they were to get yet another one? So I think I would just ask a lot of questions around it.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:51] Speaker C: If there was going to be anything self defeating that they thought could happen as a result of getting another one.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: You have to just really focus on that.
[00:22:00] Speaker C: Think of questions.
Therapy is about a lot of questions.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: Yes.
The next question is kind of along these lines, and I don't think we've answered this yet. Is there ever a time when tattoos can be harmful to an individual's mental health?
[00:22:18] Speaker C: I think it would really, again, it's an individual thing, but I think that if there was regret around it, if it was attracting a kind of an attention that wasn't intended or the person wasn't really ready to handle those kinds of things, I could see coming up in my practice in life, the kinds of tattoos that I'm seeing are not overwhelming.
I think even for people who end up getting sleeves on the arm, that there isn't a lot of. I haven't heard of a lot of regret around that. But again, I think that the question is, if something is done out of impulsivity, it could be tattoos, it could be something else. Then something that's an issue could come.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: That's an issue. Let's take another break, and then when we come back, we've got one more email question. I've got several more questions that I just had for myself, so come back and join us. You're listening to Ray Matters on 90.7 the Capstone.
[00:23:28] Speaker C: Tuscaloosa.
[00:23:30] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's Cris service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: Matters on 90.7 the capstone. Tonight, we're talking with Dr. Vanita Mata. Sorry about that. And we're talking about how tattoos can help people heal.
Our last email question. This is a good question, and you may or may not have an opinion on this, but how long should someone wait to get a tattoo after an event such as like a death or healing from trauma?
[00:24:35] Speaker C: Again, that is a really tough question. I think it would be so individual in terms of where the person is in their healing journey. If they're feeling dysregulated, impulsive, it may not be the best time to make big decisions about a lot of different things, including a tattoo. And so I think that staying close to what your feelings are, maybe meeting with a therapist to talk about where you are in terms of your healing. Definitely very helpful.
[00:25:03] Speaker B: Do you find that your clients, that when you discuss, and I don't know, how often is this just really like a session topic? It's not usually just a session topic. It just might come up in a session. But how much do you feel a person feels connected? It's almost like. I don't want to say a fraternity, but when you're working on a college campus, that's what you think about. But it's almost like you feel very connected to other people who have tattoos.
[00:25:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think it becomes something of a tribe. You did this? I did this. Tell me about what you did. I mean, I think that you could say it's almost like being an alumni group of a part of a group, or it is definitely common connection because you're seeing something very fundamental about yourself in a similar way, do you think?
[00:25:57] Speaker B: I read a little bit about why some people expose hidden mental scars to gain public recognition.
In my mind, wouldn't that sometimes cause a person to think about that trauma a lot and almost be like a trigger?
[00:26:17] Speaker C: I think it could be that. I also think that, again, I think if we look at it as a form of artistic expression, there's so many artists who went through who experienced something so traumatic that they couldn't put it in words, but they could only express it through their art, whether that was literally a painting, music, a novel, that they couldn't put their anguish into words, but they could put their anguish into art for the rest of us to be able to connect with. That's how I understand it.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so, too. I thought about that when I was coming up with some questions about. Because I kept running into the connection between trauma and tattoos. There's lots of research about that. More than anything, I found, honestly. And so now it's going to.
I had a student this morning who had a tattoo, and in my mind I noticed it even more than I would have noticed it, I think, because I knew I was going to do the show this afternoon. But now I want to ask every student, why did you get that? Not to be nosy, but just curious, why did you get that tattoo? Was there meaning behind it? Now I think I will do that because I think people want to talk about it.
[00:27:34] Speaker C: I agree.
Because if they didn't want to talk about it, why would they have the adornment to begin with? Again, it can be a signaling function. And if it's something that they don't want to talk about, then they can say it.
[00:27:46] Speaker B: They can say it.
I always ask people, do you have any resources for listeners, any books, any websites, anything that you think is credible that somebody could that's listening? Or what would you tell somebody who's considering getting a tattoo to commemorate something?
[00:28:05] Speaker C: I looked on the web this morning. I can't say that I did a very thorough search at all. I did as much more of a cursory thing, really. The only associations that I could find were for tattoo artists, actually, and not so much for people who want the general public who, if somebody's thinking about getting a tattoo, I would say.
I write for psychology today.
I'm just so surprised by the kind of engagement that I've had with readers about this. But I'm not the only person who's writing about it for the site.
I think psychology today is one place to start. I think that if there's a particular study that you're interested in, this is mostly done by researchers and not clinicians, but there are different.
You can look these articles up in the journals.
I think that if you are considering and you don't know, I think that the general principles of therapy would allow for a person to be able to explore their motivations, to have a better understanding of what it is.
What is the motivation behind the decision that they are considering so that they can go into it with being fully thoughtful about it? I think that the general principles and method of therapy would help.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: Would help.
Since I work on a college campus and I see only students, is there any advice you would give a student who wants to get a tattoo for how they can talk to their parents about it?
[00:29:44] Speaker C: That is really tough.
[00:29:46] Speaker B: It is very tough.
[00:29:47] Speaker C: It's very tough. I wonder, and this is just a thought about trying to open up the channels of communication around other things and see how that goes.
So is your question around.
What would a college student do if they want to get a tattoo? But they know that their parents are disapproving of it, right?
Yeah. So I think that that would be a very tough conversation to have. I would also say that let's remember that we're learning about brain development, that it actually continues well and continues past through college speaks to the issue of impulsivity. But I would say that if what you're seeking is to be able to have meaningful conversations with your parents with back and forth dialogues, and I would maybe even just try to experiment with other things first before the tattoo. Just take a litmus test to kind.
[00:30:48] Speaker B: Of test the waters a little bit. Yeah, but I've actually had the opposite. I've actually had students who get tattoos with their parents.
[00:30:58] Speaker C: That can happen, too.
I think that, again, it was so interesting because I think people of Gen X, generally speaking, they're not pro tattoo, but I think that people are getting, look, this younger generation, a lot of things are different now.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: A lot of things are different. That doesn't mean you have to accept it. If you're listening and your child is getting a tattoo, I want to say it is more permanent than, like, piercings, but you could still have tattoos removed. I've heard it's very painful. I've heard it's more painful than actually getting the tattoo. So I don't know.
[00:31:38] Speaker C: Well, this issue of permanence is so interesting because I think that, again, for this younger generation that grew up with iPhones and texting and everything, just a given.
We're of a generation where if you wanted to take out a book, you had to go into the card catalog, and it was a very laborious kind of thing.
[00:31:55] Speaker B: What's the card catalog?
[00:31:59] Speaker C: They've already done us the now. But the notion of permanence is a really interesting one, because from our generation, we know what permanence looks like much more. And I think that this is why it's so important to think about where your psyche is when you make a decision like this, because it is not like a text that you can delete or an email that you can delete. This is something permanent.
[00:32:32] Speaker B: Right.
I touched a little bit on historical and cultural context, but I didn't really ask you about the cultural aspect where there are some cultures that this is expected.
Do you know anything about that in doing any research on this?
[00:32:52] Speaker C: I don't know too much about it, except that it's seen with different eyes. There's a form of adornment that's beautiful, that is part of the culture, the way that we pierce our ears here or we wear jewelry, is that it's the same thing. I come from a culture where we use henna, and so for celebrations at weddings, we'll have beautiful henna, but it's temporary, but we'll have it put on our hands. For me, I've always found it very beautiful. I grew up with it.
[00:33:23] Speaker B: Yes.
And for some cultures, it's a rite of passage from boyhood to manhood, girlhood to womanhood. It's a rite of passage for some cultures. So that's fascinating, too. Last question. How is tattooing connected to self realization?
[00:33:41] Speaker C: So I'm going to be like a complete academic on you and ask you what your definition of self realization is. Does it cause self actualization?
[00:33:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:33:51] Speaker C: Okay. So I think that, again, I think I would almost look at it again from an artistic point of view, that artists, for some people, this form of expression is like.
It's an expression of their most authentic self, the deepest part of themselves that they can express to the world. So I think in that way, this is something that is from me that I'm sharing with all of you when you look at me. And I think in that way, it's self actualization.
[00:34:23] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I appreciate it goes by very fast.
[00:34:29] Speaker C: It does. It was such a pleasure to be with you.
[00:34:31] Speaker B: Yes, this is wonderful. It's a great topic. I think we're going to get a lot of listeners on this one because it's pertinent right now with, like you said, this generation and with the college mean, I don't know what the percentage is. I don't know even if anybody knows that or could know that. But that would be an interesting study. What percentage of college students get tattoos within the first year that they're at college or something like that.
[00:34:55] Speaker C: I think that there are some studies. They may be in the UK, but I think that there are studies out there might. I think there might even be one. I had this vague memory of seeing one that came out of South Africa, but, yeah.
[00:35:07] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:35:08] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's global.
[00:35:10] Speaker B: It's global. And it's probably more popular, like you said, with the age, with the generation. And it doesn't matter where it is. It's the age.
[00:35:20] Speaker C: It's the age. That's what the research is saying. Again, that's not me. That's the research.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: That's the research. Disclaimer.
Thank you. Don't forget our shows are recorded and podcasted on Apple podcast and audioboom.com and also voices ua.edu. You can type in brainmatters and you'll find our past shows there. And you can go to voices ua.edu on our counseling center's website. And that website is counseling ua.edu. I like to thank the people who've made the show possible. Our executive director here at the counseling center, Dr. Greg Vanderwald, my producer and director, Catherine Howell, and also my colleagues at the counseling center. Catherine Ratchford is the editor. She edits our shows for the WBUA staff and the radio station. And also my guest tonight, Dr. Vanita Maida. And I totally messed up your name again. I'm so sorry.
[00:36:13] Speaker C: It's okay.
I know your heart is in it.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Well, my last name is G-U-E-N-T-H-E-R Guntler and everybody butchers that, so I'm kind of used to it. Don't forget we're on next week and our show is another interesting and I think it's very pertinent topic, slow dating the new post pandemic relationship trend. So join us same time, same place next week. Thanks again for listening tonight and have a good evening.
[00:36:52] Speaker A: This show was not intended as a substitute for professional counseling. Further, the views, opinions and conclusions expressed by the show hosts or their guests are their own and not necessarily those of the University of Alabama, its officers or trustees. Any views, opinions or conclusions shared on the show do not create a relationship between the host or any guest and any listener, and such a relationship should never be inferred. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, please contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's Cris service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency.
