[00:00:00] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's Cris service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Again for brain matters, the official radio show of the UA Counseling center. We are broadcasting from the campus of the University of Alabama. Good evening. My name is Dr. BJ Gunther and I'm the host of the show along with my colleague and producer Catherine Howell. And in case you don't know, the show is about mental and physical health issues that affects college students and in particular UA students. So you can listen to us each Tuesday night at 06:00 p.m. On 90.7 fm, or you can listen online at wbuafm ua.edu. You can also download the MyTuner radio app and just type in WBUaFM 90.7. And don't forget I asked for this every week, but we have many of our shows already planned out for this semester, but not all of them. So we need some ideas from listeners for upcoming show topics. So if you have an interesting topic that we have not covered, or maybe one we have covered in the past years, email those topic ideas to me at brainmattersradio at wbuafm ua.edu and of course I'll consider using your show topic idea. We don't do shows in the summer, so even if we can't do the topic for this semester, then we'll start back in the fall and definitely consider your topic. So that's Brainmattersradio at wvuafm ua.edu tonight's topic it's an interesting topic to me, and to be honest, I cannot remember how I found this topic. I might have had an email sent to me or just been doing some research on trends in college because this is fascinating. It's slow dating the new post pandemic relationship trend online dating is alive and well, but a different, less time consuming method of dating, dubbed slow dating, is getting attention now too, and for good reason. Slow dating has become increasingly common in recent years, and while many are on the hunt for that perfect partner, a lot of daters are realizing that patience is the key. And the pandemic changed a lot of things about dating and although the idea of taking dating slower after being quarantined for months might sound strange, it actually makes a lot of sense. Tonight's guest, my guest tonight is Lee Wilson. Lee is a relationship coach, one of the most respected relationship coaches on earth with 67 million views on his YouTube channel. And having been interviewed by major media such as the New York Times, USA Today, the Today Show, Australia, Cosmopolitan magazine, New York Post, Men's Health, Business Insider, Glamour magazine, Daily Mail, and many others, he regularly consults with celebrities, world leaders and private investigators. Wow, Lee, I feel intimidated that you're on the show, but thank you.
[00:03:28] Speaker C: Oh, thank Dr. Gunther. Really, really excited to be here.
[00:03:32] Speaker B: Hey, tell the listeners more about yourself. Tell the listeners about your credentials and also why you're interested in this topic.
[00:03:42] Speaker C: Well, when I was in college in the late ninety s, I was going to be doing Internet marketing, and that's originally what I was hired out of college to do. But what actually happened was I was working for an organization who provided help to married couples who were considering divorce and were likely to divorce. And so they had marriage consultants on staff and one of them a terminal illness, and he deteriorated rapidly and he had to resign. And they asked me to fill in for him just for a couple of weeks, mostly because I had been traveling with the president of that company, who's Dr. Joe Beam, and I knew his material extremely well. That was my job, as a matter of fact, was to learn his material because we were going to be creating a lot of online content for it. And at one point, he was medicated because he had a broken ankle and he, in the middle of the speech, forgot what his next point was going to be. And I was in the front row and he just said, lee, what's my next point? And I knew right away because I had listened to him so much. And so they thought I would make a good fill in until they got into the marriage consultant because I was 20 or 21, and who's going to listen to a 20 or 21 year old about marriage? So I was temporary, but I didn't speak under my own authority. I referenced people and quoted people because that's what you have to do at that age. And it went very well. And so they asked me if I wanted to keep doing it a little longer, that they weren't in as big of a hurry to fill that position, and they want to make sure they get the right guy or right girl. And so eventually they just said, who are we kidding? Why don't you just keep doing this? So I did. And they sent me to different places to get certifications.
This was called Family Dynamics Institute, and they provided a certification. Basically, it was based on his needs, her needs, Dr. Willard Harley's material.
That was 23 years ago now, which, every time I say it, I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not. The math is not on my side. It's 23 years. And so that's how I got into this. A lot of it had to do with looking around at the families in the world that are falling apart.
They're losing each other, divorce and everything else, and what it's doing to us. And I want to help be part of what can change that. I know there are other people out there who help as well, but I certainly want to do what I can so that I can sleep at night, because I think that that's an extremely important issue in our world right now.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: It kind of sounds like it just fell into your lap a little bit, doesn't it?
[00:06:45] Speaker C: It did. It wasn't my plan.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: Right. What do you know? I got my degree in marriage and family therapy. And really, Lee, it's kind of for the same reasons that you just said. Not that I thought I could bake cookies for the world. That's what my best friend says, you can't bake cookies for the world, BJ. But not that I thought I could do that, but I really did it because I'm a helper at heart, and that's why we do what we do. What do you think makes a good relationship coach?
[00:07:17] Speaker C: Well, a good relationship coach is going to be willing to say some difficult things to the person that he's coaching. And I have to do that sometimes. I had someone the other day, a young man, and I finally just had to say, this is not going to serve a point if you're going to defy me at every corner. And then when we have a plan, you change it and come back to me and want me to help you fix the new problem.
I do know, I think that a coach has to be willing to kind of stand up to the person who's saying that they want help, they want to achieve these goals. And so I think that a coach is very good in that area, but I also think that a coach needs to have the same goal as the person he's speaking to. And that may sound overly simplistic, but I know situations where the coach or the therapist does not have the same goal and the two people are not on the same page. And that can be a very frustrating experience for both involved. So I think it's very important, the coach and the person who wants coaching that it's very clear what's expected and what the person who's being coached desires and what their goal is.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: So when you take on a person to work with, do you and the person come up with a plan, kind of like a treatment plan, I guess you would say.
[00:08:45] Speaker C: Well, usually they tell me what they want to happen and they tell me about their circumstances and then I tell them if I think it can happen or not, and if I think it can happen and it's what they want, then we move forward. If I don't think it can happen, then I'll tell them I think the ods are against us here. But even then, a lot of times I'll still try and we'll work together. But usually it has to be something I think can be achieved.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: That's right, because people walk through your doors with incredible aspirations that it's not going to be attainable at all. What is slow dating? Can you define that?
[00:09:29] Speaker C: Slow dating is where people who are kind of, it's kind of a countercultural type of thing in that rather than just let's go on a first date and if we feel it, we're going to run with it. It's telling know, look, I have been in situations where things got hot and heavy. I mean, technically it's limerance, to quote Dr. Dorothy tenoff. And it's really difficult to slow down at that point when you allow yourself to go that far. And so slow dating, as best I understand it, is where we're going to try to take limerance out of that to some degree and we're going to really have a plan and a time frame. And so two people may say, look, I'm just getting to know you, but I do want to explore this. I do want to see if this is what I want, but I'm not going to be in a relationship with you or serious with you, things like that for this amount of time. And people can choose three months, six months, whatever it is that they want. But that way they don't wake up in a situation where they are in a limerance based infatuation type of situation and it's a bad situation and they're in it and they don't get out of that fog of the newness and the infatuation and the limerance for a while and then they're in sort of this attached mess. And so I have some horror stories on that. I'm sure you do, too, where three or four months of the fun and the limits and the fireworks, and then you get to really know the person and you don't like them at.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Know. Lee, what is the difference in, I guess I'm old school and old fashioned, but what is the difference in slow dating, the trend and going back to just the old traditions of dating and getting to know your partner before becoming committed?
[00:11:26] Speaker C: I think it's very similar, and I think it might just be kind of putting a new name on something so that we don't have to fill old fashioned. I think really it's looking maybe to have more responsibility and try to keep our emotions and the limerance, I keep saying that word, but to keep the limerance out of it until we're ready for.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: So, well, let's do this. Lee, let's take a break. Let's take our first break. Catherine's queuing me a little bit. And then when we come back, are you willing to take some email questions?
[00:12:05] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:12:06] Speaker B: Okay, we'll come back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7, the Capsafm Tuscaloosa.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: Matters on 90.7 the Capstone I'm Dr. B. J. Gunther. We're talking tonight about slow dating, and if you don't know what that is, then rewind this and listen to Lee Wilson is my guest tonight. He just gave us the definition of slow dating, and it's really taking dating, really re looking at what dating is in the big picture. And Lee Wilson is a relationship coach and an author. And I want you to talk about, Lee, some of your, have you written any books or do you have any materials for listeners to pull up while they're listening to the show?
[00:13:46] Speaker C: Well, most of my content now would be on my website.
If they're married, it would be marriageradio.com. If they're dating, it's myxbackcoach.com. Myxbackcoach.com, which does have a big section on breakups, but it also has a lot of material for success in dating and finding love.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: Sure, I said before the break, we'd take some email questions. I'm going to start with this one. Is slow dating popular for a particular generation or age group?
[00:14:18] Speaker C: That's a good question. And the people who, when I've actually heard people say we are slow dating is what they'll tell me, or I'm slow dating. Normally it's someone who's in their late twenty s to mid 30s. That's been my experience. But my sample selection is based on when I started hearing people say slow dating. It's probably been a few hundred. So it's not a really large number who are saying that. But that's kind of my perception is that it's a late twenty s to mid 30s kind of thing right now. But that certainly doesn't mean that other age groups aren't doing that.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Yeah. I have not heard any of my students use the term slow dating, but you better believe it. I'm going to start using it and just see their facial expressions because they need it. Oh, my goodness. They need it. And it's shocking to me that they don't understand it's okay.
It's okay to do that.
And my husband and I, when I started working at the counseling center 100 years ago, group dating was the thing. And I know that's crazy to say, but that was like an end thing, like going out and group dating. And now when we go out to a restaurant or somewhere, in fact, last night we were eating at Panda Express and there were two couples, you could tell they were college age couples. And it's refreshing. And we told each other, we're like, I like seeing couples out again. That's like, neat. And it might not sound like a lot to a lot of people, but when you work with so many students and you hear so much about hookups and we'll talk about that in a minute, but that kind of stuff, it's refreshing to see that.
[00:16:08] Speaker C: Oh, it is. It definitely is. That people were giving it more thought than just diving in and making an.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Effort, really making an know. How did the pandemic affect.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: You know, that's been such an odd topic, and USA Today interviewed me about that and so did the New York Times. And at the time, it was really solidifying relationships that existed if they were close to each other and could still see each other because.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: You mean.
[00:16:42] Speaker C: Correct, close. Close meaning. Yes. Geography. And so, for example, there were people who were clients of mine who were married couples living together, planning a divorce. But during the pandemic, because there were some people, I mean, we didn't know what was happening. We didn't know if we were really going to pull out of this. It was at the end of the world. There were all kinds of. Those were wild days. And I remember this woman who I was speaking to, and we could still speak. And she said at one point, she said, you know, he actually has become my rock during all of this, and I think I've become his rock because everything seems like the zombie apocalypse or something.
So there were a lot of people who grew closer and they were in bad situations. So there was a lot of that. And there were some people who were in bad situations because they were avoiding each other because of the bad situation. So they were used to one of them or both were going to work. And now that everybody was at home and it was the two of them, not only did they have to actually talk about some things and interact with each other, but they had an opportunity to have some quality time and to rebuild some closeness and get to know this person again. And that was very helpful.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:18:04] Speaker C: The bad news is that when we came out of the pandemic, there was a certain segment of people who kind of embraced freedom in a way that I would say they kind of went crazy.
And that includes a lot of the early 20s, late teens age, where they started wanting to go out to these clubs. And it became, whereas it was a girl's night or a guy's night once every couple of weeks or something, it was every weekend. And they're out till two or three in the morning. And a lot of people turned into party people who weren't before. And I think some of it was because they thought, man, I've been locked up for so long.
Here's my freedom. And they're still kind of milking and going after that. But as far as just what the pandemic did to dating, I know, right after, people were still kind of afraid to be close to people. It's like, have you been, you've been tested? What's your status and all this stuff.
[00:19:13] Speaker B: That's right.
And that's not a great opening line, pickup line.
[00:19:19] Speaker C: Not as romantic. Not as romantic as other ones. I would choose.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Well, I had students who, the negative part of it also, they had just started dating. It was a new relationship, and it really didn't get a shot because at the beginning we all thought, oh, this is going to last 15 days, or what did they say, like 14.
[00:19:43] Speaker C: Two weeks to flatten the curve, right?
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Two weeks. That's right. And so after six months or whatever, I think these new relationships just fizzled out. And who knows what could have become of those. Really, they did.
[00:19:58] Speaker C: And I, as a matter of fact, heard about quite a few where they just said we had gone on a few dates, things were going really well, and then went into lockdown and we couldn't see each other. So we texted and we kind of, oh, man, in a couple of weeks, we're going to go out and really looking forward to that. And then two months later, they kind of just stopped talking in a lot of situations, just stopped texting and just disappeared. Just disintegrated. Because they didn't have any kind of foundation.
[00:20:26] Speaker B: No. To handle that. This might be a common sense question, but what are the pros and cons of slow dating?
[00:20:34] Speaker C: Okay, well, the pros, I've gone over a few of them, is that you're taking the emotion out and the limerance and the fireworks of, hey, this is a new person. And basically it's your inner desire to explore them emotionally and physically, which is technically intimacy. And it takes some of that out of the picture, and it forces you to look at this logically, as in, does this make sense?
Does this person share my values? What does this look like long term? It lets you think about that instead of just basing it on attraction and connection. And the first side of this person, that's a terrific thing. Some of the cons are going to be that some people are going to be hurt because some people will feel it right away and feel like you don't reciprocate. And so not only does that hurt, but they're going to think, I don't want to waste my time and other people are not going to be used to it. And so they're going to be impatient because a lot of people tell me, as a matter of fact, just a few days ago, a woman told me, she said, I want a boyfriend now. Well, so a lot of it is going to be that it's not necessarily that the person is a bad person or that they're irresponsible. It's just they're not used to it or they misunderstand and have some hurt feelings. So everything in life is a trade off. And I think that this is probably a really good trade off to take it slowly. So hopefully more people will.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
Let's take another quick break. When we come back, I've got more email questions for you. And also I've got a question. You said that the lady you talked to was just, like, wanted a boyfriend.
[00:22:27] Speaker C: And wanted a partner.
[00:22:28] Speaker B: Right then I call that love. Ready? And I've got a question about that when we come back. If you'll hang on the line, we'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7, the capstone.
[00:22:51] Speaker C: Tuscaloosa.
[00:22:52] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: Matters on 90.7 the capstone this is BJ Gunther. We're talking tonight about slow dating, the new post pandemic trend relationship trend, which I didn't even realize was a trend. And this is fascinating. I think I could talk about this all night because it's so pertinent to the population that I work with, which are college students here on the campus of the University of Alabama. My guest is Lee Wilson. Lee is a relationship coach, has been for 23 years at least, right? And also an author. His website is wonderful. I've been taking a look at it while we've been chatting myxbackcoach.com, and he'll give that out again at the end of the show. I hope so. I'll try to remind you. But when we went into the break, I mentioned we have a few more email questions. So the next one is, is slow dating specifically online, or are there opportunities for individuals to meet in person?
[00:24:34] Speaker C: The ones that I have heard of have been exclusively in person, where a lot of times they're on a dating app or a dating site and they've put in their profile that this is what they're interested in. And that's a good way to go, because one problem you can run into is what if you're slow dating and the other person is going out with a ton of different people and they're slow dating with you, but not necessarily with everybody else, and then you call them up one week and say, I'd like to take you to dinner this weekend. Oh, well, I'm kind of in a relationship now.
And so it's really important that both people, in my opinion, the ideal way to do it is to say, look, we're going to exclusively consider each other. So we're not exclusive, but I'm not going to be going out with ten people in the next two weeks. And if one of them happens to just really strike me the right way, I'm going to dive into this new relationship. I'm going to give this a chance you. And it's going to be, say, six months or whatever, and we're going to reach a point where we make a decision if we go forward. So you want to know if the other person is going out on other dates with other people because that's a great way to make some progress and then to have everything just snatched out from under you.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: Yeah. It's ironic you mentioned that because I had a student today who they've gone out six times and I'm not sure she understands the concept of slow dating. She's a person I probably am going to talk to about this, but they are exclusive. But the thing now that I talk a lot about with students or they bring it up to me is the label like, what are we? Are we boyfriend? Are we girlfriend? What are we? And it really bothers people now. They want that label now yesterday.
[00:26:35] Speaker C: Right.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: So that's an issue too.
[00:26:39] Speaker C: It is. And there might need to be another label that we come up with. But if people ask, I think a good thing to say is just to say, well, I'm considering something right now.
I'm considering a relationship with someone and kind of leave it at that and just be as patient as you can. And sometimes if people are really excited about the other person and they have looked into this and had some conversations and asked some questions and they feel like that this makes sense logically and they both do.
If you both say, I don't want to wait six months, I think I'm ready now. There's no law that says you can't do that either.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: Right. Well, and bringing that up. Love ready. I mentioned it before the break. Do you feel more people are love ready and that's ready to be in a relationship yesterday but not willing to put in the effort to build a foundation that slow dating helps to develop?
[00:27:49] Speaker C: Yes, I am. And I think that a lot of people do want to have everything right now, and I don't think that that's necessarily a new thing, but it is something that there's a lot of pressure right now, it seems like, on people having that label and having a person. And I get that we were created for relationships with people and predominantly we were created to be in romantic relationships that bring about children because we were supposed to repopulate the planet. So there's a very strong biological process and system pushing us toward each other. And that's great. There's nothing at all wrong with that. But one of the things that, especially over the years, has become far more valuable to me is having history with someone. So not just the label, but the history. For example, I have been married 23 years, and that's really important to me, that I have history with someone. It's not just she's my wife. We go back.
And it makes me sad sometimes because I do see so much carnage, divorce, breakups. And it seems like people don't value that history as much, that they could just toss it aside because at the moment they're not feeling happy.
I've heard some terrible excuses, the cliches, like, I need to work on myself and things like that, that really, most of the time, it's just something they think you won't argue with them about. And it's so vague and personal. How can you say anything?
People don't seem to value the history as much that since we have this much time together and we know each other and we have these experiences together, maybe we should stick this out and work on this and give us some time. And a lot of people are not doing that.
When you have somebody who's saying, I want a boyfriend right now, that bothers me because there's kind of an old jingle or cliche, and a lot of those are true. But one of them is easy come, easy go. And if you're going to make a serious decision like that and put someone in such a serious place in your life that quickly, to me, that also says you could swipe them out for someone else.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: That's exactly right. I mean, I spend a lot of time talking with my clients about how to choose someone like who you're choosing. That's where it starts. What does that mean?
If they have a history or a pattern of unhealthy relationships, I go back to, then who are you choosing? Are you choosing the same type of person? So we kind of go down that rabbit hole.
Do you think that there's such a thing as dating app fatigue?
[00:31:05] Speaker C: Oh, yes, absolutely.
Almost a daily basis, I hear someone say, I hate dating apps.
[00:31:12] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:31:12] Speaker C: And part of it is because you got to make this profile and you got to write it up. And usually they want you to answer these questions.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: And it cost. Sometimes it cost.
[00:31:26] Speaker C: That's right. And you're answering these questions that if you were on a date with someone and they asked you the question, you might give, not necessarily different information, but you might answer the question with different information. So you wouldn't change the truth or anything like that, but you might tell them more about something else so that it's in context. So you have that. And then here's what also, I talk about this a lot, and as a matter of fact, I do have a book that, it's a manuscript form now, but I have an agent for the book, and we're pretty excited about it. And one of the things that I do talk about is something I'm calling the catalog mentality.
And it's this idea of, we think we have so many options that if this person, if they are not just tickling me in the right way in this moment, if they're not just exciting me like I want them to and all that, I'll just hop back on the catalog and I'll turn a few knobs, and I'll pull up Mr. Perfect or miss Perfect, and I'll get someone better than you in 5 minutes. And we think we have all these options. And when people especially, no offense to people who are younger, but younger minds, when younger minds feel like they have unlimited options, it's very easy for them to toss aside.
[00:32:51] Speaker B: You're right.
[00:32:52] Speaker C: The person in front of them. When it used to be, if we go back 100 years ago, your options were basically limited to your hometown. And maybe if you were in a small town, there might be seven or eight single people.
[00:33:06] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:33:11] Speaker C: It's a different world. You might go to your preacher, you might go to a teacher at school, something like that, and say, who do you know? Who would you recommend? And they would kind of set you up on a blind date. That's how people used to do it. And you didn't think about all these options. I have. What you thought was, this person is good to look at. We get along. They have a good family. I like this. This will work. And that's really, if you have two people who are willing to work it out and to have peace with each other, you can go a long way. Even if it's just this person who may not just have every single box checked. If you have two people who just want to work it out and have peace, you can get a long way with it. You can. And so the catalog mentality of today, first of all, it does make it to where the person you're with can be tossed aside quickly, but it also makes it to where we devalue human beings because they're just another entry in the catalog. They're just another person on this dating app that's right. I can go back and find another one.
[00:34:19] Speaker B: It's very robotic, too.
[00:34:21] Speaker C: Yes, it's good and bad. I know lots of happy couples who've met on dating apps, but it's also got its cons as we've been talking about big time.
[00:34:33] Speaker B: Before we go into the next break, I'm going to take the last email question. It's a good one. And I never thought about this. Can slow dating be beneficial to individuals with social anxiety?
[00:34:45] Speaker C: I think so, because the pressure is so much lower.
Are we supposed to kiss now? Am I supposed to text every morning good morning and every night good night? I mean, all those things.
There's kind of an understanding. We are taking this slow. And don't worry, we've got a date. We're going to go out on two dates a month, something like that. And we're going to think about it a lot in between. We're not just going to jump into the other person's life. Here I am and that kind of thing. So I think if you do have social anxiety, it's a much slower pace with a lot of understanding. You don't have all those questions that are going to make you feel like you're going to throw up or something. So I think it's the ticket. Yeah. If you have social anxiety disorder or even just you have social anxiety sometimes.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: That person perfectly, then, okay, we're going to take our last break. When we come back, I've got a couple of more questions. I've really got more questions than we have time for, but I'm choosing to ask these last two questions because I think I mentioned the hookup culture before and I want to get to that. So we're going to take our last break and we'll be right back. Your list into brain matters on 90.7. The Capstone.
[00:36:04] Speaker C: Tuscaloosa.
[00:36:05] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:36:46] Speaker B: Matters on 90.7 the captains. I'm Dr. B. J. Gunther. We're talking tonight about slow dating and my guest is Lee Wilson. Lee is a relationship coach. He has a website. I'm going to ask him to talk about that in just a minute. But I want to get to these last two questions. Lee, first of all, what are some of the ground rules for slow dating? Are there any ground rules people should know?
[00:37:09] Speaker C: Well, the first ground rule is you really need to make your expectations clear to each other because we don't want someone's feelings hurt because you think we're not going to text every day and they think that you are, or if you say, okay, we'll go out in two weeks, and the other person is thinking, well, why not this weekend? So you really need to understand, what is slow dating? What do we both think it is? And the other thing is going to be, you need to make clear, be that on a profile or the first conversation, what are you looking to get from a relationship? Are you looking for a marriage partner? Is this long term, things like that? Because you don't want to spend all this time only for the person to say, oh, well, I wasn't looking for marriage, and you were. And now you feel like you wasted six months of your life.
Beyond that, I think so much of it is going to be up to the people involved. But those two, in my opinion, get those right, it saves a lot of headache and hurt feelings later on.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: Isn't that the truth?
I usually see them on the back end of this, where it's too late. They should have asked that in the beginning.
Does slow dating fit into the hookup culture, or is it more for people looking for a long term relationship?
[00:38:24] Speaker C: Well, my understanding is that it's more of a counterculture type of thing. It's not hookup culture. Most of the people who do slow dating don't sleep together right away on the first date. Quick. Right. It's designed for people who are not wanting to just bounce from one person to the other and throw everything that really should be for exclusive, serious relationships or even marriage to a relationship that's two days old. And so I think that it's really kind of a counterculture thing because I think a lot of people are very, just disoriented and disgusted by a lot of what's happening.
[00:39:11] Speaker B: Well, and discouraged, too. And it's not just, you would think that it might just be girls talking about this kind of stuff. No, I've had many guys come in here and feel the same way. And it shocked me when I first started working here because I had a misconception about that, and it's just not true. There are guys out there who want that, too.
[00:39:34] Speaker C: Oh, of course. Definitely.
No doubt about that.
[00:39:38] Speaker B: Hey, talk about your book. Talk about your book a little bit. Talk about the resources that you have out there and also any other resources for listeners who are listening to the show right now.
[00:39:51] Speaker C: Sure. So the book that I'm working on, I can't say the title, but that's okay.
It's basically the idea of kind of what's going on with relationships right now. Why are we seeing not just an extremely high divorce rate, but also an extremely high breakup, how people are having these relationships? And this is what I'll hear. I'll say, tell me what's going on. If I do get to speak to the person who wants to leave. And so many times they'll say, well, we get along great. And he's just terrific to me. And so much of it's good. I've even had someone say, 99% of my relationship is great.
And they'll say, I don't know. It's just a feeling and things like that. And I'll say, but there's nothing wrong here. And this person wants to throw the relationship away. And if it was just an isolated incident, you wouldn't have a book about it. But it's not just me.
I don't know. I'm wondering if you've had similar experiences where you have two people sitting across from you oftentimes married, and one person wants to leave, and you ask them, why do you want to leave? And what they tell you is it's vague, it's based on some sort of a whim. And you ask, well, tell me about your marriage. Well. Oh, he's great. Everything's great, but I want to leave. It's just the most bizarre thing, and a lot of it is because we create problems when there's not a problem, when it's just two human beings having to live together, compromise and work it out, and the normal problems that come with that. Or it's fear of missing out, which I think is a huge problem in relationships.
And that's a big topic in the book.
[00:41:47] Speaker B: And also boredom.
Boredom, which I don't think people know how to handle. Relationship boredom.
[00:41:55] Speaker C: We live in a world where when we are bored, we pick up our phone and we start pushing the screen, and we're no longer bored. And we put that into every area of our life. We can't sit still and listen to a song anymore. We listen to 20 seconds of it, and we're bored of it. And we've translated that to people. And here's the interesting thing, and this is a huge part of the book, we are getting it backwards. The first part of the relationship, the word limringths, I mentioned earlier. You can google that. I have an article on
[email protected]. And
[email protected] if you just type in limerance, limerence, and here's what's happening. Limerance is it's similar to infatuation. It's designed to get two people who are strangers and have no reason to even sit down and talk, to sit down and talk and form a relationship, or else you wouldn't do that with a stranger. But it's a combination of attraction and a desire for intimacy. And intimacy is getting to know the person, their feelings, and the facts that have happened to them in their life. And limerance is temporary. It is designed to get you to companionship and commitment and a feeling of family. That's the goal. But a lot of people, when they get there, because limerance is so much more exciting because it has to be. I mean, it's chemically based. It's primarily dopamine. And it's designed to get you to what we all think we want. We want this committed relationship and this marriage and family. But when we get there, because those chemicals fade out. And from the ashes of limerance, we have companionship and commitment and the feeling of family. But then we're bored because we don't have those chemicals, and we're all dopamine addicts now. That's what happens when you pick up your phone and you press and things happen. You're getting little dopamine rushes. And so we have taken that over to human beings. And if this person stops giving me a dopamine rush, well, then our relationship is in crisis and I need to leave. That's the world we're in right now. That's what my book is about.
[00:43:54] Speaker B: Yes. And not being able to be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable, know that's what you're talking. Hey, Lee, thank you so much for being on the show. This has gone by so fast. We need to do another show, a part two where we talk about this triggered me to think about when you were talking about how this generation now is not comfortable with admitting they care for somebody or that they're attracted to somebody or that it's being natural to compromise in a relationship. Even. I don't even know how I would categorize that show.
[00:44:30] Speaker C: You just tell me when and I'll be there.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: I'll do it. Because I love talking about this kind of stuff.
This is a large majority of what I end up talking about with students. They can come in for sleep problems, they can come in for depression, test anxiety. But eventually we get on relationships. And I don't know if I ask about it or if they bring it up, but it always is a topic that's interesting and fascinating to me, and I know it is for you too, or we wouldn't have chosen to do this in our careers.
[00:45:03] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:45:04] Speaker B: Thank you again, and I appreciate you. Good luck with your book. I will be in touch when we decide to do another show. About this this has been fun.
[00:45:13] Speaker C: Oh, I've had a lot of fun, too. And you're right. Time did fly by so fast.
[00:45:19] Speaker B: Let me make a few announcements. Don't forget, our shows are recorded and podcasted on Apple Podcasts, audioboom.com, and voices ua.edu. Just type in brain matters and you'll find our past shows. There's also a link to voices ua.edu on our counseling center's website at counseling ua.edu. And I'd like to thank all the people who've made our show possible. Dr. Greg Vanderwald, he's our executive director here at the Counseling center, my producer and my colleague, Catherine Howell, the colleagues here at the counseling center, Catherine Ratchford, who edits our shows on a weekly basis and the WBUA staff and of course, my guest tonight, Lee Wilson. Don't forget we're on next week and our show topic is going to be eating healthy on a budget, which is very hard to do. I'm trying to do that right now. It's expensive to eat healthy, so hopefully the guests will have some tips. Don't forget, this week is our recharge week and I'm trying to find the announcement. Join us to generate awareness for mental health and suicide prevention. There's lots of activities throughout the week, such as trivia, kickball, tournament training events, even a puppy break. So we would love to have you take part in this important event all week at the student center and all over campus, and stay up to date for details by following on at tide against suicide. And you can also look at our website, too, counseling ua.edu.
We appreciate you listening tonight, and thanks again, and we'll be here next week. Good night.
[00:46:59] Speaker A: This show is not intended as a substitute for professional counseling. Further, the views, opinions, and conclusions expressed by the show hosts or their guests are their own and not necessarily those of the University of Alabama, its officers or trustees. Any views, opinions, or conclusions shared on the show do not create a relationship between the host or any guest and any listener, and such a relationship should never be inferred. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, please contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's Cris service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
