Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: It's 06:00 in time again for brain matters, the official radio show of the UA Counseling center. We are broadcasting from the campus of the University of Alabama. Good evening. My name is Doctor BJ Guenther and I'm the host of the show along with my colleague and producer, Katherine Howell. And in case you don't know, this show is about mental and physical health issues that affect college students and in particular UA students. So you can listen to us each Tuesday night at 06:00 p.m. on 90.7 fm, or you can listen online at wvuafm ua.edu. you can also listen on a variety of apps. I like my tuner radio app and just type in wVUaFM 90.7 and you'll get our show. Also, we're kind of in the middle of the season right now. We only do shows in the fall and in the spring. We don't do shows in the summer, so we still have several shows to go before the end of the semester. If you have an idea for a topic for our show, send those ideas to me at Brain Mattersradio at wvuafm ua.edu and I'll consider using the show. And nothing, I really don't think anything is off limits. This is, oh my goodness, this is my 11th year I think, of doing this show, and we've done everything that I can think of, and I try to keep up with the college mental health trends. But, you know, there's always topics that I think we need to revisit that are important, depression, stress management, test anxiety, that have to do with college students. So don't be afraid to send in some of your ideas if you haven't heard a show that we've done on the topic. I'll try to remember. Katherine's good at helping me remember giving out the email address, but it's brainmattersradiovuafm ua.edu. tonight's topic. I'm excited to talk about this because I think there's a lot more people who deal with loneliness.
And really either they don't realize it or they just don't want to admit it because it's kind of difficult sometimes to talk about. And I talk, I would say, quite a bit with students, and sometimes they don't bring it up, but I recognize it, and I'll ask them, are you lonely? And they look kind of shocked at me. So tonight our topic is the epidemic of loneliness. People may experience loneliness at times, but long term or severe loneliness may negatively affect health and well being. And loneliness can, can affect people of all ages. But seeking support and connection may help resolve feelings of loneliness. And tonight my guest is joining us all the way from Vancouver, British Columbia. Beautiful place.
And I actually read an article when I was doing research for the show. I came across his name because he had written an article, I believe, for psychology today on this topic and reached out to him, and he's agreed to be on the show. Doctor John Tyler Benfett. He's a professor and director of graduate programs. Director, this is one of the. I want to talk about this aspect of your job a little bit, too, because this is fascinating. He's the director of building academic retention through canines. B A R K is the program bark and you guessed it. It's dog therapy, basically, which sounds just wonderful to me at the University of British Columbia.
And it's actually, I don't know how to pronounce the school of education. Will you pronounce that?
[00:04:04] Speaker C: Doctor Ben Fat, the Okanagan School of Education.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: That's amazing. You know, thanks for being on the show, first of all. And if I didn't go over your credentials specifically, give us a little bit more information about yourself while you're interested in this topic. How did you write the article? How did that happen? And come into play and talk a little bit about how long the BART program has been under your care.
[00:04:33] Speaker C: Certainly. Thank you for having me. Pleasure to spend time with you.
This might strike your listeners as a little bit unusual, but I knew in undergrad that I wanted to be a professor, and so I just knew for some reason in psychology, studying psychology, that that was sort of the pathway for me. And so I did an undergrad degree in psychology. I did a teacher education degree. I did a master's in measurement, psychometrics, and then I did a PhD in child and, and adolescent development.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:05:08] Speaker C: And so I'm under the umbrella of educational and counseling psychology. That's the umbrella I live under. And, you know, at the forefront as I describe my job. And you sort of hit on it. BJ. I seek joy in my work. I am a researcher at a tier one top university, but I put joy at the forefront of everything I do. And so I have an unusual kind of work profile. I have a bifurcated research stream. So I spend half my time asking children and adolescents about kindness, what it means to be kind, how they demonstrate kindness, and then the other side is very applied. And I run a stress reduction lab program, as you mentioned, called BARC, building academic retention through canines. And so I usually am covered in dog hair at work. And we have 63 dogs and handlers who work in programs. And we really offer what's called low barrier, easy access, low stigmatized mental health services for students. And I'm sure we'll delve into the importance of that.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Well, I may need to have you, excuse me, I may need to have you on the show again just to talk about that program in particular. We have done, we've done a couple of shows on animal assisted therapy on. We even did one on equine assisted therapy, which was fascinating, too, because we have a program here in town that offers that. But I think it would be another great show. It's been years since we've done the animal assisted therapy.
[00:06:40] Speaker C: Happy to participate. So I want to reinforce to listeners seek joy in the work they're doing. And I think the undergraduate degree in particular, students are to explore a variety of topics and then sort of find their joy pathway. And we wish for them, we're all older folks, I'd say, and we wish for them to have meaning in their careers and to find joy in the work they do.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: Well, you're a rare breed in that, and you're, and you're, you're somebody that a lot of people would be envious of. And I have met a few undergrads who immediately know, I mean, from the get go, they know from the time they start here what they want to do. So they just don't, there's not a question about it. And they've never doubted it and they love it. But those are few and far between. Most of the students I see, really, either they're got, they've gotten a scholarship and they feel, and I think they're excited when they first get here, but sometimes they get disillusioned or they just change their mind or they just, it's just harder than they thought. But I feel like they have so much pressure on them from other entities. Maybe it's the people who've given them. Maybe it's the department who's given them the scholarship. Maybe it's their parents. You know, maybe it's the community they're from. And, you know, a lot of. I spend a lot of time talking with students about, you know, changing their majors, even having the courage to change their major. And I don't even know how we got off on this topic, on this other subject, but I guess it could lead to unhappiness, not having joy and possibly loneliness there. How do you like that transition?
[00:08:19] Speaker C: Well, absolutely. Well, listen, I would say, and maybe, I don't know if Katherine and you, you know, can attest to this, but I see it in, like, junior year, they maybe followed the parental suggestions and pathways, and they have this awakening in junior year where they're like, I'm not sure this is for me, but a lot of them will say, but I'm not so deep in. I better just continue and finish.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:08:45] Speaker C: Some will do what you say, this brave act of switching, trying to carry over credits, elective credits, for example, and then really finding their pathway. And it's through this exposure to coursework that they get exposed to these ideas and possibilities.
[00:08:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And just maturing, too, you know, growing and gaining, hopefully gaining more confidence. Hey, how did you come to write the article that I read that I found your name and your information on loneliness?
[00:09:13] Speaker C: Because I encounter this regularly in my practice. Here I am deal with students who are profoundly lonely. And it's not uniquely. At the University of British Columbia, we see it's paradoxical.
It shouldn't happen because we have highly dense, densely populated campuses. Students should be able to connect and cross pollinate and sort of establish these micro communities of support, but they're unable to for a variety of different reasons. And so I see it in the work that I do, kids who are profoundly lonely, and I want to sort of demystify this concept. What is happening here? Now, I'm a researcher, and so my job is to conduct studies and whatnot. And I recognize it's really tough to study loneliness. People don't want to be outed as lonely. They don't want to sign up for loneliness studies. So you have to be really kind of nuanced as you go through.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: I think people, and I alluded to this in my intro, but I think people feel a little bit embarrassed to admit they're lonely because I think they feel like it's a reflection on themselves not being able to have friends or make a connection. And that's not necessarily, you know, you can talk about this a little later, but I don't think that's necessarily true in most cases, you know?
[00:10:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think for international students, I don't know what your international student population is there, but it is a real struggle for them. And I hear the international kids will come to me and sort of stand beside me and say, you know, I don't know how these kids do this. How do they figure out all these connections and what is the recipe? And I don't have one for them, but I'd like to dial down the temperature to around expectations for students. You don't need to win any kind of popularity contest, no congeniality contest. You really just need one significant other who has got your back on campus. And we call that a micro community of support. Could be a faculty member plus a student, just somebody who kind of knows what time it is for you. So I dial down the expectations. You don't need to do some kind of campaign to be the most popular person around, but you do need to bridge social connections. Now the question is, and, and we'll probably get to this, are students well prepared from high school for the challenges of college?
[00:11:37] Speaker B: I'm not sure. I think it depends on the culture, maybe even the region of the country.
[00:11:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
Where you, if their parents have gone.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: That's right. There's a lot of different factors, if you think about it. And ironically, I just had a conversation with a student this morning a little bit about what you were talking about, basically, and what I told her was, I have read research where really, in your whole lifetime, most people have less than five close, close friends.
Have you read that too, and done research?
[00:12:11] Speaker C: Yes. And I think the flip side of this, BJ, is the social media magnifies the illusion of this collective large.
And the reality is it's much smaller.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: It's much smaller. Realistic to think. In fact, we were talking about she was being, I guess, kind of alienated from a group, but she was friends with each group member individually.
They didn't invite her necessarily to other functions and stuff. So we were talking. That's, that's how we got on that. Let's take our first break, and then when we come back, let's talk exactly what is loneliness and, you know, how does it impact different aspects of your life? I've read a few articles to do a little bit of research before, so I've got a lot more questions, I think the ones I even sent you. And then we're going to take some email questions too. So if you'll hang tight, we'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 19.7 the Capstone.
[00:13:19] Speaker A: WVUA FM, tuscaloosa. This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties Crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Hey, you're back listening to brain matters on 90.7 the Capstone. This is Doctor BJ Guenther, and I'm talking tonight with Doctor John Tyler Benfetta from the University of British Columbia. We're talking about the epidemic of loneliness, which the surgeon general of the United States has basically stated that there is an epidemic of loneliness. If you just look around, how do you identify if someone is lonely?
[00:14:28] Speaker C: Yeah, it's interesting. We can sort of. This will sound a little bit odd, but in the work we do, we do sort of group interventions and we can kind of smell it. We just kind of know, and my team knows.
[00:14:41] Speaker B: It's like instinct for me.
[00:14:42] Speaker C: Yeah, it really is. But it's really this mismatch or discrepancy between one's desire to be connected to other and the reality of one's actual social connections. So in the example you gave us before the break about the student who wanted to be a part of the collective, but was only kind of connected to individuals, on the one hand, I would celebrate that at least she has these individual relationships. She's looking for more of a cohort, larger group, it sounds like. But we're really talking about students who long for. Who stand at the window of friendship and look in and say, I want to be a part of that. Right. And that's really what we're talking about now. I want to keep it real here, BJ. It is not unique to college students. It is elevated rates of loneliness in college experience, undergrad particularly. But there are many adults walking around with this profound sense of a lack of social connection to others.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: Yes, I think it is so unfortunate when there are people all around you and it appears that you're, you know, you shouldn't be lonely in quotations, but you are lonely. And maybe that even goes deeper. You know, maybe that is akin to depression, even, and maybe you'll talk about that a little bit later, is how is lonely? Is loneliness, you know, a result of depression or a cause of depression. And before I forget, I want to give out our email address again. Catherine reminded me and I forgot, it's brainmattersradio at WBUA.
If you have any questions or any suggestions for show topics, send those to me. Sorry, Doctor Benfett, go ahead.
[00:16:18] Speaker C: Oh yeah, listen, we can think of loneliness as being nested or existing within a whole host of ill being experiences, right. Increase in anxiety. It increases the perception of stress, right. And people have argued in the literature that it's the understanding that you lack resources should anything happen, right. This idea of sideways, you understand you've got nobody to turn to. And so it increases anxiety, increases the perception of stress. It coincides with depression.
We haven't seen gender differences. I work in stress reduction as well, and we see women report higher levels of stress than men. But in loneliness we see comparable, across the literature, across cultural studies, we see comparable rates of loneliness. So it seems to affect college students in particular at the same rate. I'm particularly worried about the impact on cognition, on intellectual growth. And being lonely can really undermine students learning on campus. And so I argue, and I think this is my next article for Psychology today. And I appreciate the plug for this blog that I write for them called canine kids and kindness. Canines kids and kindness is in my blog. And so I actually am really incubating this idea around loneliness. Robbing students have experience?
[00:17:45] Speaker B: Oh, yes, definitely.
[00:17:47] Speaker C: You think of the reason students go to college and parents fund their tuition and whatnot is for them to experience this rich, rich growth time period of their life. And I think loneliness robs them of that and it robs them of their development as well. This is a time when we refine our sense of humor, we learn about interacting, we learn about our social emotional skills, we learn about regulating our emotions, all these things. And if you are isolated and alone, you are being robbed of that. And it's really tough.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: It's really tough. And we talk, I talk about with my students about, this is probably the only time in your life that you're going to be around the most people at your age that are the same age as you, which I think puts them under the pressure that I better hurry up and socialize or make friends or I'm not going to be able to when I get out in the world.
[00:18:47] Speaker C: Yes, well, we see that with romantic. I don't know if you see it on your camp, but you can see it where there's pressure of, I gotta lock it down with somebody and, yeah, you know, because once I get a.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: Show about all my friends are getting engaged. We did that. I think that was the last show in April. Yeah.
[00:19:02] Speaker C: Well, and I don't. I don't know if we're headed this way, but we do know that the rates of loneliness on college campuses is double for same age non college student counterparts. So there's something about the college experience that appears to be contributing to this, this feeling of loneliness. And you will have ideas on this, and I do, too. And we've mentioned briefly the lack of preparation for college from high school, that transition, the high academic rigor and expectations in workload that can really contribute to overwhelming students.
There's also this, we call it adulting for the first time that parents take a step back from the immediate lives of students, especially those living on campus, and then this expectation to establish all of these new social norms and connections. So my question, BJ, I don't know what you use with folks, but I always say ask, hey, who'd you share your last meal with?
[00:20:03] Speaker B: No, I asked that. I asked the question. Excuse me. I asked if you want to go out to eat with somebody after this session, who would you call?
[00:20:11] Speaker C: Love it. I'm stealing. Yeah, I go backwards. I like your forward kind of thinking because it shows, like, who's my resource, my social capital.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: I call it your voice of reason, friend.
[00:20:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Because I go backwards. And then if we're eating alone, eating in isolation or eating alone in a community setting or eating in their room is a. For me, it's a cup of noodle soup in their room by themselves. I know that's a red flag for me. And so I know we'll talk about parent strategies and things like this, but these are subtle ways that parents can check in it. Right? Asking about meals, sharing and food, ideally in this context, should be very communal.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:56] Speaker C: And that, to me, is a. It's an x ray, if you will, on the loneliness status of you.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Have you ever read or done any research on loneliness on college campuses prior to social media, prior to the Internet even?
[00:21:15] Speaker C: Yeah. No, I haven't. I'll tell you, loneliness is a little side hustle for me. It's, you know, I mostly do kindness and I mostly do the dog intervention stuff. So loneliness is in the spirit of transparency. It's a new dependent variable we just have added. So we've done homesickness in the barclay and stress reduction, and we're just now because, as you said at the opening, we're seeing more and more of this.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: It's weird. It's weird. Because I don't think people really think about it a whole lot. Like, I know here at the counseling center, we don't really talk about it a whole lot as being a major issue. But when I said today that my show was on the epidemic of loneliness, people were like, oh, wow, that's a great topic, you know, because you just. I don't know, people just don't really think about it that much because people aren't really talking about it, like you said, that much.
Maybe we need to offer a support group here on that, you know, or.
[00:22:06] Speaker C: There'S a cloak of shame around this, you know, who I hear from the most. And you can maybe relate to this. Students with exceptionalities, students with special. Special needs for autism. Yeah. Boys on the spectrum, right? And they look and they're like, I need some kind of course on this, you know, like, how do you. What are the mechanics of making a friend?
[00:22:29] Speaker B: I mean, it sounds elementary. It almost looks like first grade, you know, and I tell them that when we talk about practicing social cues, I warn them, I'm like, this is going to sound like first grade for just any student, not even the students who are diagnosed, diagnosed with autism or anything like that.
[00:22:49] Speaker C: Yeah, but it's an additional. So when you think neurotypical students are struggling with this, and then our students with exceptionalities face especially steep barriers around this. But I like your thinking around a support group or something, I think. And I challenge listeners to come up with some kind of way to market it or label it so it doesn't have that connotation of shame or I'm a loser. Cause I can't do this right and.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: Helps people to open up a little more about talking about it, you know, even within, like, the residential communities, because that. I remember when we built our new residence halls here, they were very different than what I lived in at college.
When I lived in college, you know, in a dorm in college, it was more. You had to share everything, the bathroom and all, you know, and that just horrifies people. But honestly, I can see it horrified me. It was trauma.
But now, you know, they can hold up in their rooms and if they haven't made any connections with anybody, the only people who know when they don't come out of their rooms would be their parents, like you said, checking on them. And it's just, I remember having discussions about that when the residential halls were being built, the concern about that. And it has happened.
[00:24:12] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, and I think the resident advisor on the floor hopefully would be plugged into this and and check on that as well. But you're right. And I think the flip side, and I don't know if we'll talk about this after the break, is kids living in a virtual world. Right? And they're like, what are you talking about, Doctor B? I got lots of friends. I game with them all night long.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: Oh, yes, right. Yes.
[00:24:33] Speaker C: And so there is that whole other piece that kids are living, and maybe post Covid, more so in a, what they would perceive to be a rich social virtual world. And I think you and I, as older help providers, we're like, well, there's more to life than that, but eventually.
[00:24:52] Speaker B: That'S going to catch up with you. That's what I'm thinking. Eventually it's okay right now, but it's going to catch up with you eventually because most of the world does not work like that.
[00:25:02] Speaker C: Yeah, well, we're not naive about technology, and I think it's a generational thing too, but it plays a really pivotal role in the young lives of these people.
And so we want interventions when we talk about groups or something, maybe doing something virtually initially and then moving to in person might be a modality that would be attractive for.
[00:25:24] Speaker B: True. One more question before we go to a break. What is the difference between solitude and loneliness?
[00:25:31] Speaker C: You know, I think my, in the literature, we would see isolation or solitude as self imposed and loneliness as this out of control condition that people experience. Right. I'm retreating because my social battery says I'm depleted and I need some quiet time. But this idea, remember, loneliness is wanting to engage but not having the opportunity because you lack social connection. So there's a real distinction there between the two.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: I read that in an article and I thought, well, I'm going to ask him what his opinion of that is because that's, I haven't thought about that. Yeah, retreating, recharge, easy definition. Let's take another break, and when we come back, let's talk about, let me look at the emails and see if we have an email question and then also want to talk about if there are different kinds of loneliness.
[00:26:21] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: Be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7 the capstone.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: Wvuafm tuscaloosa. This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: We're back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7 the capstone. I'm bjdehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe gunther. We're talking tonight about the epidemic of loneliness and my guest is a professor from the University of British Columbia, but does a lot more. You sound like you've got your hands on a lot of different things. Doctor John Tyler. Ben Fitt. And the BART program is just the most fascinating thing to me. Do you utilize that with the college students too?
[00:27:43] Speaker C: Yeah, that's primarily so. It stands for building academic retention through canines. We are in our 13th year on campus and I'll tell listeners and they can check out the bar website, bark dot ok dot UBC Ca. And that's sort of a repository on all the stuff that we've done and scientific information about therapy dogs and their effect on students.
I came from Southern California up to Canada and I brought a dog with me and we worked in an adolescent treatment center.
[00:28:12] Speaker B: Oh, I ran one in the past. Yeah.
[00:28:15] Speaker C: Traumatic and acquired brain injury. So we would go every Saturday as volunteers and this dog was just wonderful. And I saw the magic that she worked. I came up to Canada for this faculty position and I'd go from my building across campus to get coffee and I would be besieged by. They would largely ignore me and then they'd invariably BJ, they would look up with these tear filled eyes and they'd say, as much as I miss my parents, I miss my dog.
[00:28:42] Speaker B: I hear it all the time.
[00:28:43] Speaker C: Yeah. It was in that moment that I said, you need to create a program for students to connect with dogs. And so that was 13 years ago. And now where we run programs on campus, we run a drop in on the Friday evening, and it's specifically on Friday because the weekend can be a really lonely, lonely time for students.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: That's a good idea.
[00:29:05] Speaker C: A lot of students, they look forward to the weekend and they've got all these plans and social connections, but for a subgroup of kids, this is a really long period of time. And so we run that on Friday nights, and then on Wednesdays we do. I mentioned the outset here, we do low access or low barrier, easy access, low stigmatized programming. So on Wednesday, if you can imagine, at this campus, we have dogs dispersed throughout the campus, at the Starbucks, at the library, at the Commons building. And then students can pop in and have a five minute little dose handler, checks in and says, how you doing? How you coping? Want to take a mindful breath together. And then they just lose themselves in pet and the dog, and they get recalibrated. And so we have all these dogs working on Wednesdays, and then we're at the police department and we do a bunch of kids programs and all kinds of stuff. So it's a real research hub, but also an applied community program.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: That is amazing. And it sounds like it takes a lot of coordination, you know, a lot of different people who are actually trained.
[00:30:06] Speaker C: Yep, we do all our training. Yeah, you'd be, from a counseling perspective, curious to hear. All of our folks are trained in self harm and suicide recognition. And so they step right into these conversations. Conversation, right. And then we have a whole protocol if any students are showing signs of concern. For example, in last Friday, on Friday session, my team member just said to me, green backpack. They just said, green backpack. So I knew to check in and then I'll step in. Or Freya Green, who runs the program, we step in and say, you know, my job is to be concerned about students. I'm particularly concerned about you. Can we have a chat? And then I go in with, hey, who'd you have your last meeting with? Cup of noodles in my room by myself.
Yeah. So we have this deal. Then I either refer them to formal resources on campus, in student support services, or depending on my reading and the severity of it, we could just have an agreement to come back to a session. And I ask, have you had any thoughts of self harm? Step right in.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: I'm just doing an assessment.
[00:31:12] Speaker C: Right there is what you're doing, but it's green backpack. And like I said, said my team kind of knows who to look out for.
[00:31:19] Speaker B: And of course, yeah, we do. We offer outreaches here, you know, where we go out onto campus, speak to classes.
A lot of times when we offer outreach, like our big outreaches that are maybe outside or at the student center, we will have an organization bring dogs. And I forgot what, what they call it sometimes, but it's not regularly. It's just once or twice a year.
But my first experience with really witnessing the power of this kind of therapy, if you are skeptical, was through. We had a shooting up at one of our other universities that is associated with the University of Alabama, and they only had one counselor at the counseling center. And we all went up there for about a week to, you know, help the students, and they brought dogs from all over the country because there really wasn't an association close to here. And witnessing that was like the neatest thing. It was remarkable.
[00:32:20] Speaker C: Well, and I can share, and we might talk another time about canine assisted intervention and programming, but two that your listeners might find curious. I am the professor on campus with all these dogs, and I don't always keep them on leash. They're very well trained. And I have a front leg amputee. I mostly work with amputated dogs, with amputees, amputations. And so this front leg amputee, Craig, I'm in the elevator and I'm counting dogs, and I'm missing a. And I look out the elevator, and he has chosen not to follow me. In the pack, there's a big, tall, lanky engineering student hovered over him, tears spilling.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: He was doing his job.
[00:32:58] Speaker C: He intuitively knew. And the kid, I go over there and I say, how you doing? He goes, I failed another midterm. I'm not good. So it was the catalyst, you know, the other one, I give talks all the time, and I'm giving a talk. And the dog, Craig, leaps off the stage and goes through the audience and sits right next to a kid on the spectrum.
It was really powerful, but there's just all these kind of wonderful stories.
[00:33:22] Speaker B: I bet you've got hundreds of stories left.
[00:33:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Dogs connecting with kids. And it's really gratifying. I don't know about you, but it's really gratifying as a researcher and faculty member to see this experience and get the feedback. And mostly, I don't know about other researchers, but I have clients who just look at me with these tear filled eyes and say, thank you. And it is so heartfelt. It is so heartfelt.
[00:33:48] Speaker B: And we don't get. We don't get that much in our profession, honestly. You know what I mean? So that's a fulfilling feeling.
[00:33:56] Speaker C: Yes, it really is. It's gratifying for me as a researcher. And I said at the top of the hour that I seek joy in my work. And that's a real piece of it, is helping others. And the dogs, I always kind of joke and say, the dogs do the heavy lifting. I'm just kind of the, the puppeteer behind, you know, with the teacher.
[00:34:11] Speaker B: You just feed them. Yeah, you're just the feeder. Let's go back. We're talking tonight about loneliness, the epidemic of loneliness, especially with how it relates to college students. We've got a question from a listener. Can you combat loneliness with activities that don't involve another person?
That's a good question.
[00:34:32] Speaker C: Yeah. I like that thoughtful nature. I don't know. It sounds more like a diversion to me. Does it bridge social connections? Does it get you out of your sort of safety net?
But I would say, could it lead to more connections, develop passion, expertise, and then link to what we know? And you know this BJ already. I'm preaching to the choir. But college students, by nature, are reluctant help seekers. So whatever we offer has to be really accessible. They don't want to wait in line, they don't want to pre book appointments. They don't want anything to be too time involved and require multiple sessions and things. So they live in a fast, immediate world. And so the mental health support that we offer has to somehow align with that.
[00:35:22] Speaker B: It does.
[00:35:24] Speaker C: But they're reluctant help seekers. And what we know from the literature, they either figure, they say, I can just fix this on myself, and then time usually says they can't, or they'll take the advice. If they have peers or I, they'll search online for advice, and that can skew them, sort of misdirect them to maladaptive coping skills where we have alcohol misuse, substance, random hookups as a sort of immediate, sort of medicinal approach, if you will. And so we gotta be careful about that.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: Catherine actually started a group here called creative stress relief, and we're still doing it. I'm helping out this month just because we've got someone out with an illness, and I think that's probably something that might spur on someone who would take that chance and maybe have, like, a hobby or they're a crafter alone, but maybe could get out. I don't know. When you said that, that's the first thing I thought of is maybe. Maybe it would be a distraction. But if there are other people there, that is the only way they would get a chance to interact.
[00:36:36] Speaker C: Right? Or if folks are looking to develop their leadership skills, you start some kind of club and people will join and sign up, and you'd be surprised at people who come on board, so.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: Well, here's another question. Are there statistics on how many people feel lonely even when they are around other people? Why does this happen? And we kind of touched on this already.
[00:36:58] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, I know my wheelhouse. I have bumpers on my bowling lane here because I can only have so much expertise in certain areas. But I do know that general 15 to 24 year olds report 23% rate of loneliness. College students, 58%. So it's over, double the rate. So it's elevated. And then, as we've highlighted and touched on, it really places students at risk.
They lack or they miss out on opportunities available to them. And I think really, in terms of their development, we think of college students. They might not agree with us, but they are still in development.
[00:37:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, they agree. I tell them all the time. Most of them are like, I know.
[00:37:45] Speaker C: So it's important to have take advantage of these. And I think loneliness really curbs and cut short this developmental opportunity.
[00:37:55] Speaker B: It does. Let's take our last break, and when we come back, I've got another email question, if that's okay. And then I want to talk about if, you know, if there are different types of loneliness. So I don't want to put you on the spot, but I would like to talk about that. We're taking a break, and when we come back, we'll be with Doctor John Tyler Benfat. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7 the Capstone.
[00:38:29] Speaker A: WVUAFM tuscaloosa. This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's Crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:39:10] Speaker B: Hey, this is BJ. You're back listening to brain matters on 90.1 the Capstone. We're talking about the epidemic of loneliness with Doctor John Tyler Benfett from the University of British Columbia. And we just, we were taking email questions and we've kind of touched on a lot of things. I don't even feel like I've gotten to a lot of the questions I've sent you. We've just gone totally off the rails. But that's what makes it fun, right?
This question is about graduate students, and I don't, you mentioned international students, but this person says, we have a lot of graduate students who are in Tuscaloosa for the, the first time. What would you suggest are some good ways for them to navigate loneliness while they are adjusting to grad school and meeting their cohort?
[00:39:56] Speaker C: Yes, I am the director of graduate programs here at the Okanagan School of Education, so we do purposeful things to glue people together.
So I'm hoping the institution is doing something around structuring a meet and greet and how to thrive in grad school, and that would be an opportunity. I think the one great thing about grad school is the opportunity for leadership to step up and to show initiative. Now, if that's not your thing, I want grad students to be on the lookout for opportunities where they could become engaged. There's a lot. The one that comes immediately to me is be of service to others. And grad students are always being sought in our writing centers here. And that is one way to sort of showcase. If you got into grad school, you're doing something right.
You can write, thank you. And so that would be one way. But I'd be looking for opportunity and recognize that everybody, if they're international students or they've come from a different location, they're all just in the same kind of view. And if you were to take the first step and say, I don't have anybody to have lunch with, you want to sit down with me? And that would bridge. And so I have seen really, really lovely connections happen. I would say also in coursework that I don't know about your school, we do a lot of group work and a lot of group discussions. I imagine you do the same there. And that is an opportunity to invest in a few. I'd be scanning the room and I'd be saying, I'm going to invest in those two people again. I don't need to win a popularity contest, but I want. And as a professor teaching these courses, I always say, do not leave this room unless you have contact information for two people. We create a community. Yeah. A micro community of support that you have somebody other than the professor.
[00:41:46] Speaker B: I think it's so much easier in graduate school, honestly, because you do have more in common. Like, you all have the same thing in common. Basically what your goal is in undergrad. I talk about this a lot with undergrads. It's just they don't meet people a lot of times in classes unless they're put into groups on projects, because they don't really. They get there right when class starts. They don't talk during class, and then they leave immediately. So there's just a lot of times not an opportunity. So class to them is not, you know, an opportunity to meet people.
[00:42:21] Speaker C: And they'll say that I'm chuckling because I heard students talking, and it was the end of a semester, so they'd been in class for a whole four months. And then one student turned to the other and said, I didn't know you had a british accent.
I'm like, are you kidding me? What is happening here?
[00:42:38] Speaker B: What is happening here? How many people did you have in that class? 200.
[00:42:42] Speaker C: Yeah, they sat beside each other for a full semester and didn't know from the UK. So we want to kind of debunk that. But grad students, I think you have heightened academic expectations. Hopefully have a supportive supervisor and then create that micro community of support. But look for opportunities, maybe the writing center, other places where your wisdom and maturity could be leveraged.
[00:43:06] Speaker B: I mentioned there's. I mentioned an article that I read about types of loneliness. I'm just going to go through them to see if you've heard about this or thought about this.
Loneliness, social loneliness is what we've been talking about. Existential loneliness, transient loneliness, situational loneliness, like at the holidays. Chronic loneliness, where somebody feels just lonely all the time. Have you heard of any of those?
[00:43:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I've heard of these, certainly. And the ones that I deal with mostly is episodic loneliness. That is that transition for freshman students, for example, and we might consider that maybe contextual and then the chronic, that it is a trait that is brought to campus and carries forward or magnifies in intensity. So those are the kind of two. And I think really it's beyond my capacity and the work that I do to really address any of the other ones per se. It is important for listeners to know that there are nuanced or different sort of pathways to loneliness. And when we talk about loneliness, there are diversified sort of understandings of that.
[00:44:12] Speaker B: Do you have any resources, any books that you would recommend, any websites, any associations, apps, anything you would recommend?
[00:44:21] Speaker C: I want to throw something out to you, and I'd be curious to hear your reaction as I interview you now. We think when a client presents with loneliness, that we must pour resources into the client. Right here are all the things that are going to help you. And one thing that we've done here is we activate the client and to be of service to others. And for example, I work in the kindness. And so if I were to assign three acts of kindness over the course of a week, this is an outward, sort of focused, other focused orientation versus the client sitting and waiting. As a recipient of resources, I love it. I'd be curious to. And to me, this activation gets some perspective taking, demonstrating caring, concern for meaning. Meaning, yeah. And connecting with others. So to me, it's a bit of a philosophy. I understand the need to pour resources into students, but I also want to activate them to be agents of their own, sort of digging out of the loneliness ditch. Right? Yes. So that's one thing that I've done, but they do have to. But of course, if the student is too far gone. Then we would do reparative work that would, you know, be more. We'd refer to more intensive counseling.
[00:45:35] Speaker B: This is a weird question. And after this, we'll close. But this might be an odd question. Do you ever do? I guess it would be called experiential, where you actually go out with a student. At my private practice, I have done that. It's not unethical. It depends on what the situation is. We don't get in the car and go drive to the mall. We don't do that. I'm not talking about that. You know, but we might walk outside and walk around the building while we're talking. That's what I'm talking about. Do you ever.
[00:46:08] Speaker C: Funny. We're talking about this because I did this this morning in lecture. I have my students, and you know this from your practice, but we do a shoulder to shoulder walk, not a face to face discussion. And I always say, here's your first prompt. Ask your friend. And they have new friends that I make them. I mean, my undergraduate course, I make them make friends. So they. I say, pair up with your new friend. And I say, your first question is, how are you? Take a beat and then say, really? And then second will be a curriculum based question. And they have to do shoulder to shoulder walking. They do a LAPD lap per question. And so that is one way of, like, doing the mobility, I call it kind of like a mobility movement thing. But there's something about the shoulder to shoulder that is less menacing for students to share. And. And so that's kind of an intervention that's all started.
[00:46:56] Speaker B: It's kind of like a modeling, too, you know?
[00:46:59] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:47:00] Speaker B: Oh, I had another question for you, and I completely forgot.
I know. Excuse me. What classes are you teaching?
[00:47:08] Speaker C: Oh, I teach research methodology, and then I teach a child and adolescent development class to teachers. And then I'm pitching to teach a class on kindness, and hopefully it'll be online and kindness. So maybe students from your campus could take it remotely. But, you know, with your permission, I'd like to say, you folks are really good at what you do. You really. This has been just such an enjoyable conversation, and I think it's flowed so seamlessly.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: I think a lot of people get nervous about coming on and talking, and they're shocked at how fast the hour goes, isn't it? I think they think it's going to be me saying, how old are you? What do you do for a living? You know, that.
[00:47:47] Speaker C: Are you single? Just boring.
[00:47:49] Speaker B: You know, I try to come up with questions that are pertinent, but that are fun, too.
[00:47:53] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:47:53] Speaker B: Most of the time. You know, I've only, I will admit this, and Katherine knows who it was. I've had one extremely difficult interview.
[00:48:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:48:03] Speaker B: Pulling teeth.
[00:48:04] Speaker C: A real.
[00:48:04] Speaker B: And that is, you can tell I'm a talker. I can talk to that wall. And that was just like, oh, I never want that to happen again.
[00:48:13] Speaker C: Well, I think you and I are. Well, all three of us on the call are united by this collective. We just care about students. Right. And so this to me has been.
[00:48:22] Speaker B: I ask me that again in December and in April, at the end of the semester, I turn into a bitter counselor. That's what I call, call myself. I'm the Ben.
[00:48:34] Speaker C: We all.
[00:48:37] Speaker B: Thank you so much for being on the show. Like I said, it's gone by so fast. I can't wait for it to air. It will air next week on 90.7, the capstone. So if you're listening, and also it'll be, we record and podcast our shows and they go on to Apple podcasts. They're also on audioboom.com and also voices ua.edu. you just type in brain matters. You'll find some of our past shows. There's a link to voices ua.edu on our counseling center's website, and that's counseling ua.edu. i like to thank a few people before we close who make the show possible. As always, I want to thank our executive director, doctor Greg van der Waal, here at the counseling center, my producer and colleague, Katherine Howell, my colleagues here at the counseling center who always do a great job supporting us, the show. And Catherine Ratchford. She is the student at WVUA who edits our shows, and she's the production director, and she's fantastic. And my guest tonight, doctor John Tyler Benfath. I appreciate it. Since you're on Pacific time, you've got a little more hours to work. Right?
[00:49:42] Speaker C: This is true. This is true. I appreciate it. Thank you.
[00:49:45] Speaker B: I appreciate it. Don't forget, we're on next week and our topic is going to be. Ooh, this is one I talk a lot about, especially mid term internship anxiety. A lot of people have it. So if, if you're interested, tune in. We'll be back same time, same place. Thanks for listening to brain matters. Have a good night.
[00:50:12] Speaker A: This show was not intended as a substitute for professional counseling. Further, the views, opinions and conclusions expressed by the show hosts or their guests are their own and not necessarily those of University of Alabama, its officers or trustees. Any views, opinions or conclusions shared on the show do not create a relationship between the host or any guest and any listener, and such a relationship should never be inferred. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, please contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863 if you are not a UA student, please contact your respective countys Crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
