Brain Matters S13.E01: ADHD: Unlock Your Superhero

[00:00:00] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show host or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emerg. [00:00:42] Speaker B: Okay, it's six o' clock in time again for Brain Matters, the official radio show of the UA Counseling Center. We are broadcasting from the campus of the University of Alabama. Good evening. My name is Dr. B.J. guenther and I'm the host of the show along with my colleague and producer Katherine Howell. So in case you don't know, this show is about mental and physical health issues that affect college students and in particular UA students. So you can listen to us each Tuesday night at 6pm on 90.7 FM or you can listen online at WBUAFM UA.edu. you can also download any of the apps that you use to listen to shows like this. I like the MyTuner radio app and you just type in WVUAFM 90.7. Also, if you have any ideas, this is our first show of the spring semester. We don't do shows in the summer. So if you have any ideas for upcoming show topics, please email email those to me@brain mattersradiobuafm ua edu and of course I will consider using your show topics. We always say nothing's no topic is really off limits. We need ideas for some of the trending topics for college mental health since that's what this show's about. So again, we'll try to remember to give the email address out. It's Brain MattersRadioJuafm ua edu Today's topic I thought we would start off with a bang because I have so many questions about ADHD and that's what we're going to be talking about today. And I've titled it after a book that is written by my guest. It's Unlock your superhero adhd. Unlock your superhero. I want to know first of all how she came up with this title because it's, it's so smart and you know, like I said, I have students who I guess almost every day they think they have ADHD if they meet certain criteria and it's harder to diagnose than just thinking you have certain symptoms. And hopefully we'll get into this a little bit more. My guest today is Hannah Bookbinder. Hannah is a licensed social worker therapist who's worked more, who, excuse me, spent more than 30 years working with high school students, college age students, children, helping them navigate the very real challenges of adhd. And over the course of her career, she's developed practical, compassionate techniques that support not just focus and organization, but confidence, motivation and self use and, excuse me, self understanding. Hannah's work bridges insight and real world strategies students can actually use. And she brings a deep understanding of how ADHD impacts academic performance, emotional well being and daily life. I'm really looking forward to this interview, this conversation, because as I said, this is something I probably talk about every day with students. And I even had somebody, coincidentally, Hannah text me last night, a colleague across campus who it works in advancement and fundraising and he had a parent whose child goes here, whose student goes here, and they are wondering about getting tested and seeking services. So this, seriously, when I say I'm talking about this all the time, I feel like I'm talking about this all the time. Thanks for being on the show, Hannah. [00:03:56] Speaker C: Thanks for having me, Vijay. It's great to be here. [00:03:59] Speaker B: Tell the listeners a little bit more about yourself. That was a long introduction, but tell the listeners a little bit more about yourself, your credentials, how you got interested in this topic. [00:04:13] Speaker C: So you are correct. I am trained as a licensed social worker. My licensing is that way. But my official title is ADHD coach. And I had originally started in the world of mental health because I knew that I wanted to go into private practice. And then suddenly there was this cute little kid who ended up in our office. The parents said to me, you need to fix this kid. And I said, okay. And that hadn't ever been presented to me in that way, like he was broken. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Yes. [00:04:50] Speaker C: So we met and we talked and I got to know him a little bit because you have to establish rapport. And he's telling me, you know, what he enjoys and telling me his story. And slowly but surely the layers of his story started to reveal that he had adhd. He was acting out in class, he was behind with his homework assignments, he was losing his homework assignments. Sometimes he didn't even know that he had homework assignments. And life at home was very stressful because homework was a hot topic of conversation and there was just a lot of tension. So little by little we worked together to create a toolbox for him that works specifically for his profile. Because everybody's profile can be different, even though on paper they might look the Same. And I was hooked because I got to be the intermediary between this kid and his parents, this kid and his teacher, and I could be in his corner no matter what happened, and he could tell me anything that he wanted to tell me and feel safe and comfortable doing that because there weren't any consequences. And in point of fact, if he could be open with me, the more helpful my advice was going to be. So that was the start of my career and ADHD, and it's been almost 30 years that I've been doing this. [00:06:12] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [00:06:14] Speaker C: And, you know, I just, I really love being able to work with a student. And I also like being able to support the parents because they, too, are along for this journey and sometimes they just don't understand what ADHD is and how it impacts the ability to do not only academic responsibilities, but also life skills as well. So it's a very comprehensive type of work that I do, and I just, I love it. [00:06:46] Speaker B: I think, you know. Well, I think you have to have a passion for it, too. [00:06:50] Speaker C: Yes. [00:06:51] Speaker B: And a knack, you know, patience. And I bet the child you're talking about, his stress level had to have decreased after he realized he could really talk to you and you weren't going to be judgmental and you actually were helping him and he saw. I bet he saw some results. How old was he? [00:07:12] Speaker C: He was in elementary school, so he was probably like fourth or fifth grade. [00:07:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:17] Speaker C: And it was so important for him to realize that he was not broken. [00:07:22] Speaker B: That's right. [00:07:22] Speaker C: It was just something that needed to. He needed to understand it. And then we needed to devise some strategies to empower him. [00:07:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:32] Speaker C: And what I, you know, you're going to ask me this probably at the end of the conversation, but what I want your listeners to take away from this is that ADHD does not mean that you are somebody or something to be fixed. You. It's. It's something to be understood so that you can get the help that you need and empower yourself so that despite the fact that you are, you know, lacking time management skills, focus, your brain is scattered because you have such a busy, and you can't sleep at night, et cetera. Despite those challenges, you do have the ability to move forward and kind of outsmart yourself so that you can be successful in life, in school, in your relationships, et cetera, we have a real. [00:08:20] Speaker B: I guess you could say an issue here in our town with limitations on testing. Who can test, how long it takes to get into for testing. And so that poses a Problem sometimes here at the counseling center on where we can make referrals to, who we can make referrals to. Is that, would you say, in your experience, is that true? All over the country, is it hard to get in for testing? [00:08:53] Speaker C: It can be, depending on the practice that you are coming to. You do have to have a licensed clinician who is certified to be able to do the testing. It can't just be the pediatrician. And so, you know, unfortunately, that can be. That can be a problem. [00:09:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it is for us. And I think some of my students, their issue is either they have flown under the radar and it has not been picked up because they have compensated. That's the way I look at it. They have compensated and either they have not posed a behavior problem in schools and they've made good grades. So I think a lot of people think if you have adhd, even the person themselves, if they're suspecting they might have adhd, if they're not doing well in school, I think it really affects their confidence because they think they're not smart, or maybe somebody's even told them that. And that's not it, is it? [00:09:56] Speaker C: No. I think that that's a very big misnomer that people have ADHD are stupid. Among the other misnomers that are out there about adhd, in point of fact, a lot of people who have ADHD are exceptionally bright. There's what's called twice gifted. So they know in their own minds and their own experience that they are very, very bright and intelligent. But the execution, the initiation, the organization is just lacking for them. And after meeting with so many experiences of frustration, they start to buy into this narrative of like, you know, ok, maybe I am stupid, maybe I am capable. [00:10:40] Speaker B: Yes. [00:10:40] Speaker C: And they just need somebody to point out to them that you just got to have a couple of, you know, tools in your tool bag and kind of adjust the way that you're living life a little bit to be able to, you know, make it in the world and prove to yourself that you are very smart. [00:10:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you find there is a relief once someone is diagnosed? It's like, oh, now there's a reason that all this is happening, or is it an excuse? You know, some people will be skeptical and say that too. I've heard that too. [00:11:12] Speaker C: Yes. It's kind of when especially, you know, there are so many adults now who are being diagnosed later in life. [00:11:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:19] Speaker C: And they, to your point, have had to compensate and have done so beautifully and masterfully. But then when they finally get the diagnosis it's like the One Armed Bandit in Las Vegas. Everything just goes ching, cha, ching, cha, ching. [00:11:34] Speaker B: Jackpot. [00:11:36] Speaker C: It finally makes sense. Oh, this is why I couldn't sit still. This is why I couldn't concentrate and my thoughts were racing. This is why I can't find my keys, no matter what kind of system I try to put in place. So, yes. [00:11:50] Speaker B: How'd you come up with the title for the book? [00:11:55] Speaker C: So it's really important to me that, like I said before, people recognize that ADHD is not something to be fixed. And I wanted to help my readers to know that somebody out there understands what they're going through and to remind them that they, in their own right, have their own strengths. And I don't want to for one second because there are a lot of people who bristle at the term superhero because they think that we're sort of glamorizing and negating the challenges that come with a diagnosis. I'm not negating that at all. I think that. That the challenges are very real. They're very painful, and sometimes it's very difficult to overcome. But they come to the table with their own strengths, be it that they are resilient, they're resourceful, they are compassionate, they are funny. And I think that it's important for them to be reminded of that because there are too many times in life when they're being told that they are quite the opposite. So that is what the superhero title was all about. [00:13:02] Speaker B: That's cool. That makes sense. And I think, you know, children, when they hear that of a certain age, they relate to that. [00:13:10] Speaker C: Yes, they do. [00:13:11] Speaker B: They relate to that. Hey, let's take our first break, and then when we come back, I've got some email questions if you're willing to take those on air. [00:13:18] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:13:19] Speaker B: Okay, we'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7, the capstone. Wvuafm Tuscaloosa. [00:13:37] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency. [00:14:16] Speaker B: Okay, we're back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7, the capstone. I'm BJ Gunther. We're talking tonight with Hannah Bookbinder, who is the author of ADHD Unlock youk Superhero, and she is an ADHD coach with over 30 years of experience. I mean, this is why I'm so tickled to talk to you, because honestly, I don't think I know anybody with that much, you know, years of experience like this. I mean, even the psychologists we have testing students on campus here, probably maybe not even that much experience. How do you. You mentioned twice. It's called. Adhd, is called twice gifted. I've never heard that. [00:15:02] Speaker C: You can. It's not called twice gifted, but you can be twice gifted. [00:15:05] Speaker B: What does that mean? [00:15:06] Speaker C: That you are twice exceptional. You are. You're having difficulties with your executive functioning skills, and yet you are also simultaneously gifted. So you have these two, okay, These two phenomenon going on at the same time that kind of conflict with one another. On the one hand, you're exceptionally bright, but on the other hand, you can't get your, you know, your car out of the garage. And it's sort of like what Ned Hallowell and, and John Ratey have said, that being a person who lives with ADHD is like driving a Maserati with bicycle brakes. You know, you have this powerful mind and brain and capability, but you just can't slow yourself down. [00:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it's frustrating. [00:15:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:53] Speaker B: How is it diagnosed? Can you explain that to listeners? Because I have this asked to me all the time. [00:16:00] Speaker C: So you go in to meet with a licensed clinical psychologist who, like I said, is. Has the training to do this, and they run through a battery of tests to, you know, test how you're. How you are paying attention, how you process things, level of distractibility and that kind of a thing. And then they come up with a conclusion as to whether, depending on where you fall in those, in those ranges, whether you have adhd. And, you know, one of the misconceptions about ADHD is that people don't have enough of a neurotransmitter called dopamine, which is neurotransmitter that's responsible for things like time management, being able to stay focused with your thoughts, blocking out other thoughts that are irrelevant at the time. And it's. That's not the case. It's that you don't have a flow of dopamine that comes consistently and efficiently, efficiently and enough. So, you know, I think that it's important to remember that. And, you know, there are, obviously the stimulant medications help with that uptick, but there are also other strategies that you can do to get that dopamine flowing. There are things like gamification that you can do so that there's like this element of intrigue and interest and it's competition. And now it's interesting to sit down and see if you can beat the clock and write out that five paragraph essay before, for a certain period of time happens. Or you can even compete with your friends about this too. So there's different things that you can do from a behavioral perspective too. Setting aside medication altogether, are people, do. [00:17:47] Speaker B: You see individuals compensating this way without even know what they're doing? Does that make sense? [00:17:54] Speaker C: A lot of them do. Not necessarily gamifying, but I mean they do know that, you know, the, the analogy of video games is completely appropriate for adhd because if you think it, there's so many parents who come into my office and they say, oh well, she can sit there, he can sit there for five hours at a time playing their video games. [00:18:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:16] Speaker C: Why can't they sit down and read their books? Well, nothing that's provoking that, getting that dopamine flowing. There's only so much interest that one can have. The key I'm learning about, you know, historical events. So that is, you know, that's something that's important to remember as well. [00:18:35] Speaker B: Is it true that people who've been diagnosed with ADHD are more risk takers? [00:18:41] Speaker C: Yes, they can be. Because of what you're just getting dopamine going. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Based just on what you just said in your book. Who is your who? Who is your book audience? [00:18:54] Speaker C: I intended this book to be originally for students, but what I have found is that it has become a very helpful handbook for the adults and the students lives. It gives them the opportunity to see what it's like to live with ADHD on a regular basis. So I've had a lot of parents comment about how now they have insight and understanding about what their kid is going through and so they've changed their parenting style. I've had teachers tell me the same thing. They've changed their teaching style to accommodate this diagnosis. And I even have athletic coaches who are talking to me and they realize, you know, the kid is not, not, not listening. He or she is just not able to focus long enough to memorize and even process the play that is about to take place on the field or the court. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Yeah. How much time do you spend? What percentage, I guess you could say if you could guesstimate. Are you talking to other people such as parents, teachers, coaches? How much time are with an Individual are you spending talking to their parents, talking to their coaches? [00:20:04] Speaker C: I'm doing it every day of every week. [00:20:07] Speaker B: A lot, isn't it? [00:20:08] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, from the intake perspective where they're, you know, I do a complimentary 15 minute phone consult and I'm talking to the parents there. And once, once they join us as clients, then I'm also collaborating with teachers or with other psychologists and psychiatrists who are on the team. Or if the coach, the athletic coach who's working with the kid needs sort of strategies too to be able to reach them, then we're doing that as well. And we work with college learning support centers and coaching staff at colleges as well. [00:20:44] Speaker B: Let's take, let's take an email question then because it's kind of transitioning a little bit into what I want to ask you and what most people wonder, I think is about medication. How do you, this person asks, how do you minimize the symptoms of not being able to focus without medication? [00:21:03] Speaker C: So that's a very good question. [00:21:04] Speaker B: I know. [00:21:05] Speaker C: And you know, first of all, it takes a certain level of awareness to recognize that that is a challenge. But, and it's funny that this question is coming in today because this morning I was just working with a student who recognizes that she's not able to pay attention in class. So we were talking about strategies. First of all, if you can sit in front of the classroom, that's something that's really important. [00:21:28] Speaker B: You mean literally in the front, like. [00:21:30] Speaker C: In the front row? [00:21:31] Speaker B: That's what you mean? [00:21:32] Speaker C: Okay. And then if you're in the classroom type of a scenario, if you can again gamify and say to yourself, all right, I'm going to listen for five things that I did not know about. I'm going to write them down. [00:21:47] Speaker B: Okay. [00:21:48] Speaker C: She is writing down each of her points that she has recognized as something new. I want her to tally it so that she's externalizing. [00:21:56] Speaker B: Okay. [00:21:57] Speaker C: The more you can externalize with adhd, the less draw you are causing on your brain and the more you can hold yourself accountable. Having reminders put in place. Like on my app, I have the S.O.S. reminder, which is a 3. Actually, it's not S.O.S. it's the 3 to be me reminder system. And that's our proprietary tool on the My Toad app which will remind people to first of all, gear up and get ready to start whatever the desired task is. Then it has a starting reminder to start and then it has a follow up to make sure that they actually follow it up. Wow. And if they know that they need to have external support to make sure that they actually started. Then they can incorporate the SOS feature, which is a list of contacts within the phone that they import into the app so that when they need assistance then they can write to a friend, a colleague, a teammate, a parent. [00:22:59] Speaker B: Parent, right. [00:23:00] Speaker C: A doctor to say, you know, hey, I'm working on this project or I'm working on this task and I just wanted to let you know, or I'm working on it and I need you to follow up with me because I'm not, you know, quite so sure that I'm going to follow through on it. And it's prefabricated. They don't have to worry about, you know, what's the language supposed to be like or anything. They just push it, put in the person and then that's great because they. [00:23:23] Speaker B: Worry a lot about that they will, you know, procrastinate typing emails to their professors, which makes it just worse and worse and worse. I beg them to, you know, sometimes we'll compose one right here in my office. But that is fantastic. Hey, talk about what Hannah is saying. Is my Toad T o a D app? [00:23:44] Speaker C: Yes. [00:23:45] Speaker B: You created and invented this. It's amazing. Tell the listeners about that. [00:23:50] Speaker C: What it stands for, my Toad stands for time management, organization, accountability and dialing in. I wanted to have a very user friendly acrony that basically encompassed everything that this app is. And what's unique about this app is that it's specifically made for people who struggle with executive functioning skills whether they have an official diagnosis of ADHD or not. And what's unique about it is the fact that it's a one stop shop. It takes everything that you need to do in the course of any given day and it distills it down to one location. Part of the difficulty with ADHD is the fact that that start stop rhythm becomes very disruptive so that productivity and their workflow. [00:24:34] Speaker B: Yes. [00:24:35] Speaker C: And I wanted them to be able to do all that they needed to do in one spot. And I also, like I said before, I prefabricated so many of the tools here so that there's really not a need for them to think about what needs to be said. From the initiation standpoint of things, it's all there for you and it's also there to help to remind you of the other things. Like we have a get to do list at the beginning of the app and we have some suggestions of things within categories that the user might be considering. But there's also other options that are available too. So that if we forgot something then they can incorporate that themselves. [00:25:12] Speaker B: What's the youngest a child? What's the youngest age? Someone can use my Toad app. [00:25:18] Speaker C: I have third and fourth graders who are using it and then I also have people who are older, like grandparents who maybe are misplacing their keys or forgetting to take their medication. So you know, and it's not limited to students. It can be useful for a stay at home parent who's managing any number of 200 things on any given month. Or it could be a professional or even our, the athletic coaches are using it for their team. So we're doing it out there. [00:25:47] Speaker B: I'm sorry, is it difficult to get kids or even college age since we're talking about college mental health to use this? Is it, is it hard to get them started using the this? [00:26:02] Speaker C: It's very user friendly and all they need to do is to go to the app store and download it and then start it. That's all. [00:26:09] Speaker B: I mean I would think once they started using it and it started really working for them, that would be the reinforcement. [00:26:16] Speaker C: Exactly. And they'll see turn it's, it's absolutely life changing. And all they need to do BJ is just go out there and try it. You get a seven day free trial. [00:26:24] Speaker B: I love it. I can't wait to tell my students about it. I wanted to, I wanted to talk to you first but they're always, you know, people are desperate. Students are desperate for. To tools. [00:26:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:34] Speaker B: And I mean don't get me wrong, there are some who come in and they just want to vent. I get that. And that's great. And you need that. But then the majority of the students I see, they really want strategies and tools. They try, they've tried, you know, their best efforts. What's gotten them sitting here in my office. Right, right. [00:26:52] Speaker C: And if they want to take it to the next level and make things easier so that they can remember their assignments. Be on time to. Not just with your handing in your homework, but be on time to your date or be on time to pract practice that you have practice. Then go out there and download the app. [00:27:09] Speaker B: Yes. Does the book coincide with the app? [00:27:15] Speaker C: It's more like a compliment. And there are strategies obviously within the book because I take everything that I have used in my office and poured it into the book so that they can basically have the experience of working with me in the office. But within the book, the book is very conversational. I have my sarcastic sense of humor that's in there and it's very ADHD friendly, too. You do not need to read cover to cover to benefit from it. There are some chapters that are applicable for some readers and there are some that are not. So skip that. Right. Exactly. [00:27:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good. That's good. Listen, we're gonna take another break. I've got so many questions about the book. I'm just gonna hold off until we get back. So we'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7 the capstone. Wvuafm Tuscaloosa. [00:28:18] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show host or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. [00:28:55] Speaker B: Hey, you're back listening to brain matters on 90.7 the Capstone. I'm BJ Gunther. We're talking tonight about ADHD. And in particular we're talking to Hannah Bookbinder, who is a licensed social worker and she's also an adhd ADHD coach. But she's written this cool book called ADHD unlock your superhero. But she was just talking about this sounds like the best tool. It's an app and I'm. And it's called my toad T O A d. I'm always shocked, shocked at how many students do not download apps for, like, things like ADHD or. I was talking to a student today who had never downloaded loaded app for panic attacks. And that's what she's dealing with. And she just looked at me like, wow, I never thought about that. I said, your phone's with you all the time. This is the best tool you've got. Use it. So this is just fascinating. How many chapters does the book have? What are some of the chapter titles? How long did it take you to write down it? The book. [00:29:56] Speaker C: The book took me about two years to write. And there are. Excluding. I think the, there's the. [00:30:04] Speaker B: The. [00:30:04] Speaker C: There's six, like, meaty material chapters, and they cover everything from social media. I fully acknowledge that there are pros and cons to social media. You just have to be careful with how you. You use it just like you would any other tool. I mean, you're not going to give the keys to your. To the car. [00:30:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:26] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. [00:30:27] Speaker B: Just have fun. [00:30:28] Speaker C: I'll see you later. And then there's also chapters. There's the intro. There's a chapter about parent child relationships. And I am not preaching that, you know, the parents are the adults and you should respect them. I'm talking about a mutual give and take and how in many instances it can be on the kid to establish the connection and the standard by which everybody should be living. There are certain rules that families should live by. Like if there are siblings, then you don't want to call out one sibling in front of the other because that is, you know, very. I validate. I dedicate a whole chapter to validating the experience of anxiety, which is very frequently a comorbid diagnosis that comes with adhd, unfortunately. So there's something in there for everyone. I took all of the common themes and issues that come into my office and put them into this book because I wanted it to be very relatable. [00:31:34] Speaker B: Are there any worksheets within the book that people can. [00:31:39] Speaker C: There are some. There's. There's a lot of stopping and reflecting in the book. So that just like I was in a conversation with my clients, I would say, I would give some suggestions and then I would say, you know, bj, how do you feel about this and what are your thoughts about how you would apply this to your life? Because I didn't just want them to be, you know, barked at the whole entire time when they were. [00:32:02] Speaker B: They just tune you out then. [00:32:03] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:32:05] Speaker B: When you meet with someone and you mentioned anxiety and I just had this conversation this morning with a student. When you meet with someone and let's say they come to you and they say, I'm not sure if I have ADHD or not, but they're describing some anxiety, what is the first thing that stands out to you? [00:32:23] Speaker C: You. [00:32:24] Speaker B: That makes you think, I think this is adhd, I go through and I. [00:32:30] Speaker C: Ask them some questions. It's. It's at this point for me, because I've been doing it so long, I. I'm working from my gut, and so I'm listening to what their experience is like. Are they telling me that it's hard for them to initiate their tasks, be it professionally, academically, Complete task. Right, right. What's their sleep pattern like? Is it difficult for them to get out of bed? Are they up at all crazy hours of the night? Do they have a busy brain? Are they losing things? Are they interrupting things? [00:33:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:02] Speaker C: People's conversations, either socially or again, within a professional or work environment like I just did? [00:33:08] Speaker B: You. [00:33:12] Speaker C: You might have adhd, But I. I'm not quick to slap a label on. On. On an individual either, because I'm mindful of the fact that labels can have consequences. And. And that's not to say either, that I don't think it's important to identify ADHD when it is adhd. I think that it is, but I like to have confirmation from the professional who is licensed to do this. But in the meantime, I can start giving my clients some strategies and tricks to be able to address some of these things, because regardless of whether they have the label of adhd, their struggle is very real, and we need to address those. [00:33:56] Speaker B: Hey, can you talk about. I'm putting you on the spot here, so if you don't want to do it, just say, I don't want to do it. Can you talk about one of the most challenging cases you've had? [00:34:06] Speaker C: Yes. [00:34:08] Speaker B: Look, you knew immediately. [00:34:11] Speaker C: A few of my cases have involved what's called rsd, and it's rejection sensitive dysphoria, which is very often associated with adhd. [00:34:21] Speaker B: Okay. [00:34:23] Speaker C: Rejection sensitive dysphoria is something that a lot of people with ADHD experience. It is this fear and concern and super sensitivity to rejection. So. And that rejection can come in the form of social relationships. It can come in the form of, you know, being criticized by your boss or your teacher or being called out for your behavior by your coach. And it is a visceral pain that individuals who have RSD experience. And so that adds a whole other level of complexity to your work when you are the clinician working with an ADHD individual, because you have to, first of all, validate the experience that they're having of this painful experience of having been rejected, but then also helping them to kind of look back at it from a bigger perspective and say, okay, what was going on in this situation? And was the feedback that I got warranted? Like, was I mouthing off in class and the teacher called me out? Rightfully so perhaps he or she could have done it maybe a little bit more sensitively. Not in front of the class, for example. Or is it something that was just disproportionate and the teacher was having an off day, and they weren't really right in how they did it and giving them skills and strategies to be able to kind of make that analysis and that assessment more accurately so that they're not walking around with this terrible pain all the time, you know, asking peers in the class, okay, was I really that off? Is the teacher having an off day. [00:36:08] Speaker B: To get some perspective Exactly. Yeah. [00:36:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:12] Speaker B: I would think this is a touchy subject, but I'm just gonna say it. I would think that some people who actually have RSD might have some suicidal thoughts. Even they could. [00:36:24] Speaker C: If it gets bad enough. Yeah. You know, because depression and anxiety and this rsd, they're all. [00:36:29] Speaker B: The rejection. [00:36:30] Speaker C: Yes. They're all comorbid together with it. With adhd. Not always. [00:36:35] Speaker B: Not always, but sometimes some. [00:36:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:37] Speaker B: I've got a few more questions, and I want to get email questions. One person emailed in what tends to be the biggest challenges faced with college students who have been diagnosed with adhd. [00:36:51] Speaker C: Oh, we could do a whole nother. [00:36:54] Speaker B: Hey, we'll do that next fall. [00:36:56] Speaker C: Okay, that sounds good. Getting to class on time, learning how to be organized in your room so that you're not ticking off your suite mates, your roommate, whoever. [00:37:10] Speaker B: Oh, yes. [00:37:11] Speaker C: I mean, I remember there was a student I worked with, and he was saying how he and his roommate had this agreement. It was their freshman year and his roommate had adhd, but my. My kid who also had ADHD wasn't as. Like a tornado. [00:37:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:29] Speaker C: So they had this agreement that anytime that their stuff crossed the line, the other person was allowed to just kick it back over on the other side. [00:37:36] Speaker B: Okay. [00:37:37] Speaker C: Very friendly agreement. Doesn't always work out that way. Advocating for yourself with your. With your coaches or with your professors is very difficult. Figuring out how to navigate those portals that they have online, because unfortunately, not all of the universities and colleges require the professors to use these portals in a uniform type of a way. So if you five professors, they can be using the portal, but they're doing it in five different ways. So it's as if they're using five different portals, which under the best of circumstances, is very difficult to navigate. So those are just. And then also being able to figure out how to socialize. How do I put myself out there, particularly if I have RSD or particularly if I have been, you know, subjected to social rejection on a regular basis? How am I going to feel comfortable enough to put myself out there to meet new people and maybe start anew? [00:38:31] Speaker B: It's hard. And I mean, you know, I feel like I just was talk. It's funny you mentioned about the portals. We use blackboard here. And I just talked to a student who at the end of the semester, I think she did not realize there were so many assignments in a particular place in the portal. Oh, it caused so much stress and anxiety. I'm not even sure she was able to finish. Finish it. [00:38:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:59] Speaker B: All this. [00:39:00] Speaker C: Yeah, that's actually one of the nice things about the app, by the way. A lot of the universities use Canva Canvas. Sorry, they had to make two systems that sound exactly alike. And you can import and export to and from Canvas through the app. So I just wanted to put that out there as well. Thank you. [00:39:23] Speaker B: What are the strengths of individuals with adhd? Because everybody talks about their weaknesses. What are the strengths? [00:39:32] Speaker C: And again, I'm not trying to make universal blanketed statements because every person is different, but the I just love the ADHD brain because I love looking through the world through their eyes and seeing all of the possibilities. Because I'll admit sometimes I get stuck in my box, but they're out of the outside of the box. Perspective is so intriguing when it comes to problem solving. [00:39:59] Speaker B: Yes, it is. [00:40:00] Speaker C: I talk about this in my chapter in, in my book about how this kid I was working with, he needed to have his phone with him while he was working. I don't remember exactly why. Maybe he was partnering on FaceTime or something like that, so his phone had to be there, but he was getting distracted by the notifications and the buzzes and the bleeps and whatever. So he figured out he'd been on vacation, I guess the week before we met. And he came back and he says he hannah, I know how to solve the phone problem. And I said, okay. He says, I turn on airplane mode and the phone is with me, but I'm not distracted by all the notifications. [00:40:39] Speaker B: Sounds so simple. [00:40:40] Speaker C: That was it. It doesn't have to be this like big dressy type of a solution. So, you know, and I love having the conversations with them and hearing what they have to say. They're very resilient. Like I said, they have talked to me me numerous times about how the new kid comes to school or the new co worker came to school and they are deaf or they have asthma or they're highly allergic or whatever. And even though that person's challenge doesn't necessarily jive with what the ADHD experience is, they know what it's like to live in a world that will not bend to them. And I get goosebumps every time I say that because. Because it's true. The world is not going to bend too different. The world is catered to what is like the average. Yeah. So those are just some of the examples of the strengths that individuals with ADHD have. [00:41:38] Speaker B: It's fascinating. When I first started working here, feels like 100 years ago, 20 something years ago. You know, I remember students who would have ideas like you're talking about. And I. I would kind of fight against that until I realized it's like a light bulb went on one day. I should be learning from these kids. I'm going to use what they're teaching me. [00:42:01] Speaker C: Boom. [00:42:02] Speaker B: And it sounds so, like, simple. But that was kind of a turning point for me as a professional. [00:42:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I was the same way. Because, you know, we're trained from kindergarten all the way to college. This is the way you do things. I know, but then who cares if you. How you. A to B, you know, if. If the kid does better doing cluster bubbles for their outline than a formal outline that's linear, then let them do it. [00:42:32] Speaker B: But the frustration is with other people. You know what I mean? Other people who don't have the patience or the time or they just don't care. They don't want to look, learn about. Yeah. Yeah. One more email question, I promise. Can you offer suggestions for when students experience task paralysis? This sounds like it's coming from a professional. I've never heard of that. I mean, I guess that just means they get stumped and they can't perform the task. [00:43:06] Speaker C: So you can do things like utilizing the size SOS feature, and you can also body double. So if there's something that I need to get done, but I know that I'm gonna struggle with it, then I could call you on the phone and say, hey, let's FaceTime together, or let's meet at Starbucks, or let's go the office and sit in the lunchroom and let's. Let's just work. And it's not that you guys are working necessarily on the same task per se. It's just that you are creating this ambiance of productivity, and there's that sort of support that comes with that type of a setup. You can also make it so that you're just going to do a minute of whatever it is that you need to do, like break off a little sliver of whatever the task is and just commit to it for a minute. Use your timer. There's a get. [00:44:00] Speaker B: I like that. [00:44:01] Speaker C: My app. And you can see that the time is physically filling up in the circle. Do that and see how it feels after you've gained some traction. Do you have enough traction, or do you need to bite off another little piece and just keep chipping away? [00:44:14] Speaker B: I feel like you need to see some accomplishment. [00:44:17] Speaker C: Right. [00:44:18] Speaker B: Progress. [00:44:19] Speaker C: Right. [00:44:20] Speaker B: Let's take our last break. When we come back, I want to ask you more about why the systems people use now fail. So when we come back. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7 the capstone. Wvuafm Tuscaloosa. [00:44:49] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. [00:45:27] Speaker B: Hey, you're back listening to brain matters on 90.7 the Capstone. I'm BJ Guenther. We're talking about ADHD tonight. In specifics, we're talking with Hannah Bookbinder, who is the author of ADHD Unlock youk Superhero. Before I forget, if you have any topics for upcoming shows for this semester, even in the future, please email those to me@brainmattersradiovuafm ua.edu. and of course, I'll consider using topic. We were talking about some tips basically that Hannah has come up with that are useful, but also the app is the best tool. I mean, you have how many tips and strategies, I can only imagine, can you constantly add to that app. You as the administrator of the app, you know, if you, if there's new strategies that come out, you can add that app to keep it up to date with trends. [00:46:23] Speaker C: And we're even looking into or discussing how to add like a leaderboard to it so that you can have competitions with your co workers or with stay at home parents or between students. [00:46:36] Speaker B: More motivation. [00:46:37] Speaker C: Yeah. And we're also working on a version of it so that parents can basically collaborate with their student to design what the goals are for any given period of time. And if they meet that, then they can then identify from the app the rewards that they want to have. That could be anything from, you know, bed and breakfast. [00:46:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:00] Speaker C: Or you could go get your Starbucks drink that you like to get. Or just spending quality time with. [00:47:08] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good idea. What I mentioned before the break, I wanted to ask you about why traditional productivity systems often fail. ADHD brains means. [00:47:19] Speaker C: So there's two big reasons. One is because these tools assume that the users have systems in place to be able to execute on them and that they're going to take that reminder and say, oh yes, of course, I need to sit down and do my taxes Let me get on that right now. [00:47:40] Speaker B: Oh, no, not gonna happen, not gonna happen. [00:47:43] Speaker C: For the ADHD brain that's there's a lot of mental juice that you need to put into that. The other reason is because of that inefficient attention and flow of dopamine that we've talked about before. You know, ADHD is about dysregulation of attention. It's not that they, that there's necessarily a lack of attention, which is one of the myths and misconceptions of adhd. So, you know, it's great that you have a notes app or it's great that you have a timer or whatever, but unless whatever the task is that they're being reminded to do is really jazzy and something that's innovative and novel so that it's triggering kind of like that dopamine effect. Yeah, those tools aren't going to be necessarily be effective and it puts a lot of the onus on the individual at hand, you know, in question for what it is they need to do and they just need to have something that is going to give them a little bit of a boost. Either that little sliver that we were talking about before or the intrigue of, you know, they can work towards. Yeah. [00:48:53] Speaker B: What's your stance? I've got a couple of questions about medication. What's your stance on medication, but also what's your view on medication for someone who's older, not the traditional like school age child, and they've, and they have flown under the radar and compensated. [00:49:12] Speaker C: I think that medicine in general can be helpful. I don't deny that I, I have seen firsthand that it is helpful for some individuals. I have also seen, not very often, but I have also seen instances in which it wasn't warranted or it wasn't the right fit and there were some serious negative consequences when it came to medication. So I think that it's really important that the family or the individual works with a professional, a psychiatrist, psychiatrist or a general practitioner or a pediatrician, but only the GP or a pediatrician who has extensive experience in this. [00:49:52] Speaker B: Yes, I'm glad you said that. [00:49:54] Speaker C: There are too many doctors who are prescribing medication and not responsibly. And not to say that they're trying to do it irresponsibly, but they just don't have enough experience to be able to do it accurately. And you know, these medications are not benign, especially for the stimulant medications. They will suppress appetite, they can go cause anxiety, they can flatten affect so there I even had a client who developed a tick, and I don't even know if it went away. So I think that medicine can be helpful. It's not my first go to most of the time. I mean, if. If I'm seeing that there's an individual who I'm working with who is just like, the noise on the inside is overwhelming or they're literally bouncing off the walls, then, you know, I will obviously. [00:50:43] Speaker B: Say there's gotta be an option. [00:50:44] Speaker C: Yeah, you should. You should go get a consult on this, because I will never say to anybody it's not my purview that they should take medicine, but, you know, go get. [00:50:56] Speaker B: Totally agree. What's your. Before we finish, what's your core message you hope your readers take away with the book? [00:51:06] Speaker C: You are not broken and you are not somebody or something that needs to be fixed. You are wired uniquely. And we all come to the table with something that we have as a challenge. Whether it's, you know, like, you and I, we have to wear glasses, or if it's. [00:51:23] Speaker B: Stop it. Stop reminding me. [00:51:27] Speaker C: If it's that, you know, you have anxiety or you have an eating disorder or some sort of health issue, we all have something that we're contending with on a regular basis. Some days that issue feels like a full set of Louis Vuitton, you know, baggage that we have to carry around with us, and other times, maybe on most days it's a wallet size or at least a backpack that we can just simply carry around with us. You're not alone in this, and there are people out there who can help you and assist you and better understand your profile and then identify some tools and strategies that will help you to become the person that you want to be and lead the life that you want to. To live. [00:52:05] Speaker B: Love it. Thank you. Thank you for being on the show. [00:52:09] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:52:09] Speaker B: It always goes by so fast. [00:52:11] Speaker C: I know. I can't believe it's already been an hour. [00:52:15] Speaker B: We had a lot. We didn't even get to many of the questions that I wanted to ask you, so we really have to. When you write your second book, are you working on any more books? [00:52:25] Speaker C: Not at the moment, because I'm so busy with the book on the app right now. [00:52:28] Speaker B: Was it just released? When was it released? [00:52:31] Speaker C: We just launched the app in July and the book was published in June. [00:52:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, when you write your next book, you can come back on and we'll continue this conversation. But thank you so much, Hannah. I really appreciate it, and I know we're going to have a lot of listeners because a lot of people are not diagnosed yet or have questions about it or have someone in their life they know who has symptoms. I'll say it they it that way. [00:52:58] Speaker C: Well, your listeners should reach out to us. You can go to my website, which is www.mytoadapp.com T O A D A P P. And they can also follow us on Instagram, Facebook. Look for my Toad LLC. We're on TikTok and also on YouTube. [00:53:17] Speaker B: You covered it all. [00:53:18] Speaker C: Covered it all. [00:53:19] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Take care. And by the way, before we finish, I'm going to make some announcements, but before we finish, can you send me a headshot to go with your show? Thank you. Hey, don't forget, our shows are recorded and podcasted on the Apple Podcast, Spotify, AudioBoom and Voices UA. EDU. Just type in Brain Matters and you'll find some of our past shows. There's also a link to Voices ua Edu on our counseling center's website, and that's Counseling ua Edu. I like to thank a few people, people who've made the show possible. Dr. Greg Vanderwaal, he's our executive director here at the Counseling center, my producer and my colleague, Kathryn Howell, the colleagues that I have here at the counseling center, Gareth Garner, who edits our shows every week, and the WBUA staff, and of course, my guest tonight, Hannah Bookbinder. Don't forget, we're on next week. Our topic next week is gonna be Healing from Religious Trauma. I've been wanting to do this show forever, so I'm excited about this show. I think it's. It's timely right now, so come back and join us. Thanks again for listening and good night. [00:54:35] Speaker A: This show was not intended as a substitute for professional counseling. Further, the views, opinions and conclusions expressed by the show hosts or their guests are their own and not necessarily those of the University of Alabama, its officers or trustees. Any views, opinions or conclusions shared on the show, do not create a relationship between the host or any guest and any listener, and such a relationship should never be inferred. If you feel you're in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, please contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.