Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show host or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emerg.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: It's 6:00 and time again for Brain Matters, the official radio show of the UA Counseling Center. We are broadcasting from the campus of the University of Alabama. Good evening. My name is Dr. B.J. guenther and I'm the host of the show along with my colleague and producer Kathryn Howell, who's not here tonight, but she'll be back next. I think it's two weeks she'll be back. In case you don't know, this show is about mental and physical health issues that affect college students and in particular UA students. So you can listen to us each Tuesday night at 6pm on 90.7 FM or you can listen online at WVUAFM UA edu or you can also download any of the apps that you listen to. I like the MyTuner radio app and just type in WVUAFM 90.7 we've got only a few more shows. I cannot believe it is almost graduation time. We've got probably about three or four more shows until the end of this semester. We don't do shows in the summer, so we only do shows fall and spring and we do usually about 13 or 14 shows a semester. So I'm always asking listeners to send in topic ideas if you have any topics that you think we've never done before. Since 2013, since I started doing this show, I feel like we've covered almost everything in the college mental health field, but there's always trends that change and so if you hear of anything and you want us to do a show about that, please email those to me at Brain MattersRadioVC and no topic is off limits. I'll try to remember to give this out periodically throughout the show, but Kathryn is so good at helping me remember this so I might forget the topic tonight. I was just talking to our guests before we went on the air. I'm so excited about this because I really was thinking about this earlier. I think I have a high percentage of students who want to talk about this a lot, especially and not really when you're just a freshman because it can happen anytime over your college career.
How to make friends and keep friends in college. And it sounds like such a first grade, you know, idea. I always call it like elementary school. But you know, whenever you make a new transition, it's hard for some people, especially if you have poor social skills or if you're shy or an anxious person. And we're going to talk about that. Feeling like you have no friends, especially in college, can be disheartening. And many students struggle with making and keeping connections, which can be difficult, particularly in this phase of life, not alone in this experience. And sometimes it's about improving your social skills, like I just mentioned, or simply finding the right opportunities to meet people. In any case, you can often start by doing activities you enjoy to connect with like minded individuals. And so that's what we're going to talk about tonight. My guest is joining us from Eastern time and I'm always appreciative of those guests I have that are an hour ahead of us because it's a little later in New York City. Right.
Dr. Sabrina Romanoff. Dr. Romanoff has an impressive background. I'll let her tell you a little more about her background. But she's not only a clinical psychologist, but also a professor, consultant, author, speaker. I mean, is there no end to your talents?
[00:03:53] Speaker C: That's so kind. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here. B.J.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Tell us a little more about yourself. You know, tell the listeners about yourself, your credentials. I mentioned you're a licensed psychologist and why you're interested in this topic.
[00:04:08] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. So My name is Dr. Sabrina Romanoff. I'm a clinical psychologist, professor, researcher and I often contribute to different media outlets. I work with individuals and couples also in my private practice, which is based in New York. And there I specialize in the treatment of anxiety and depression and trauma.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: Was I accurate in talking and I'm sorry, did I interrupt you?
[00:04:34] Speaker C: Oh, no, go ahead.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Was I accurate in mentioning anxiety with regards to what you see from this age group and this age group is anywhere we have had students as young as 16 years old here, which is remarkable. But the majority are 18 to 22, maybe 24 even.
Is, is it, is it more of shyness? Is shyness anxiety or how do you categorize it?
[00:05:03] Speaker C: It's a great question. Absolutely. So as a psychologist, I explain that shyness is more of a personality trait. It means you're kind of feeling more hesitant and reserved in social situations, especially when you're around new people.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:16] Speaker C: And it's very common, but not necessarily distressing. Social anxiety, though, on the other hand, that's way more intense and way more persistent, and that's a very strong fear of being usually judged or embarrassed in a social setting.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: Yes. And I find that true with this population. Often we talk. In fact, I had somebody this morning coincidentally call.
She was in a crisis. She felt like having a panic attack. And it really felt more like social anxiety to me, like something was coming up and she just was overwhelmed by it. We talked a little bit about that. Why is it so difficult for some students to make friends in college? Does it come from their background or. I have had students before who have been very popular in high school or outgoing, and they get here, and it's totally different.
[00:06:06] Speaker C: It's a great question. There can be so many different reasons why some people find it difficult to make friends in college. And it's usually not just one factor. It's usually a combination of things. First and foremost, as you mentioned, college is a huge life transition. Students are navigating this whole new environment. They have way more academic pressure and also separated from their familiar support systems. So for some, especially those who are more introverted and shy or anxious, initiating conversations and building these new connections can feel so overwhelming.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And new, you know, and I think it. I think I jotted some notes down, and when I was reading some articles in research for the show, I feel like a lot of students I have seen internalize it too. They think there's something wrong with them.
[00:06:56] Speaker C: Absolutely. I think that's also very common when you have your own history and expectation around social situations and relationships. If you've been bullied or if you've been rejected in the past or isolated, that can impact how safe or how confident you feel in trying to make these risks and connecting with people.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: Exactly. I don't think I'm not so much a psychoanalyst as, you know, but I do.
And what I mean by that, where I look at the past so much, we're a brief counseling center here at the university. And so we don't have a lot of time to go back and delve into people's past, necessarily. But I will ask students, has there been one incidence, kind of like what you just said, where something stood out or something happened and it has stuck with you, you know, like somebody has said something, maybe in sixth grade. I mean, it could be back that far, and it's still stuck in this student's head, you know, and so they're Carrying that around, thinking. People are thinking that when nobody knows that, you know, nobody knows that at all.
[00:08:05] Speaker C: Hit the nail right on the head. We often carry these scripts with us and they might have started early in life and we carry with them all throughout our lives. And it's unfortunate. We need to really look at those stories and maybe rewrite them, especially in new environments. I think also the landscape of college is very difficult to navigate. It can feel like everyone else is having the time of their lives they're making.
But a lot of people feel very lonely and disconnected at some point in the college experience. And I think social media really amplifies that perception. It highlights everyone else's connection and fun, but it conceals everyone's feelings of isolation.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:08:44] Speaker C: But the good news, I think is that friendship building, it's a skill. And like any other skill, it can be developed over time.
You can get support, join groups, have mentorship opportunities. There's all these different ways you can form connections.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Yeah, you have to take that risk.
If you're a shy person, you just have to take that risk and kind of step out there, put yourself out there and realize. One of the things I was reading. Let me see if I can find it. One of the things I was reading. Oh, play the numbers game. Is one of the headings that basically you're not. Basically the gist is you're not going to make friends with everybody you meet. We are on a campus of approximately 40,000 students and if you tell somebody that, who's outside the bubble, I call it, they think, why can't you make friends? You know, why can't you? I've had students say, my parents don't understand because there's people everywhere your age. This is probably the time in your life where you're going to be around the most people your age ever. Wouldn't you agree?
You know, so you would think it would be easy. But then again, on the flip side, that's the problem too, because you're feeling more judged than you probably ever will be too.
[00:09:58] Speaker C: That's such a great paradox. You're absolutely right. And I think, you know, if you face rejection or bullying or exclusion in the past, you're going to carry with you all this fear and mistrust and low self esteem. And that can make it even harder. Like the stakes are so high. It can be really hard to decide, you know, when do you take that risk and kind of take a chance with someone?
[00:10:18] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and, and I have students too who will try. Like I'll give them Suggestions. Right. And they'll come back the next week and they'll have tried it one time. And when it doesn't work out one time or let's say something, you know, they didn't get the reciprocity that they felt like they deserved or they will. They won't give up. They'll just be like, I can't do this. It's not working. So you don't have to be kind of the cheerleader for them to encourage them, don't you? There are many other opportunities. Just because this doesn't work, there's many other opportunities. When I mentioned play the numbers game, you know, one of the things that it says in the article, it doesn't mean you're an unlovable failure. It just means some people aren't the best match for you. And you don't need to get every last person on campus to like, you just have to get a handful you get along with. And when you break it down to that, you know, it sounds a lot better.
[00:11:15] Speaker C: Absolutely. It sounds so similar to how I've heard people talk about dating. It's not that someone is better or worse off. It's just that you're not a match. And it's about finding the people you do connect with.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: That's a whole other show, by the way.
[00:11:28] Speaker C: Absolutely. But the number theme is such a great way to think about it. It's just about getting out there. I think also a good indicator that it might be time to extend a connection beyond classroom. Or if you see someone that you think you might get along with is to see if the conversation's flowing easily, if there's laughter, or if they seem really genuinely engaged when you're talking, there's a sign that there might be this potential for friendship. You can also notice if they're initiating more conversation or if they're receptive. When you do, then you could invite them into something low pressure like grabbing coffee or studying together. Always try to think, what's the natural next step? Just one foot of the other in terms of relationship building, if they're positive to that and they're receptive, that's a good sign. You can keep on building the connection because friendship grows best when it's mutual and organic.
[00:12:20] Speaker B: What are. Can you tell us what some of the cues are?
You just mentioned a few. But are there physical cues that people. That you help people look for if they're trying to make friends and they do have those poor social skills and maybe we'll talk a little bit about that when we Come back from the break. But what are some cues that people who are listening could maybe look out for that they know they might be on the right track to like continuing the conversation with a person?
[00:12:52] Speaker C: Absolutely. It's such a great question. I think body language tells all. If they have open body language, if they're facing you, if they seem relaxed, their eye contact. The eyes usually don't lie if they're looking at you clearly, if they're not distracted. But ultimately your gut will never steer you wrong. If you feel like this person's interested, you usually will be right about that.
[00:13:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think some people, that might be the issue right there is they don't recognize that I ask. God, I ask students all the time, do you know when someone is flirting with you? And I am shocked at how many people do not know that you know, especially men, guys, you know that. I see. That's the truth. But absolutely.
[00:13:35] Speaker C: I think also we're not used to strangers being kind to us, so it's so hard to disentangle someone being nice versus interest.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: You're shocked.
[00:13:43] Speaker C: I think also we. We feel more awkward with these loose social connections. It could be really awkward initiating conversations. And our meters are usually off, especially new or unfamiliar environment. So I encourage people to really start small and just normalize the discomfort. It's going to feel awkward at first, and that's really part of the process. It's not a sign that something's wrong.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: It just takes time.
[00:14:06] Speaker C: It absolutely takes time. And I think there's a really helpful shift to focus on curiosity instead of your performance. Instead of worrying, am I saying the right thing? Try instead to ask really simple, genuine questions like maybe find that class, or do you know any really good spots to eat around here? These kinds of openers, they show interest, and then they create room for connection without putting too much pressure on the other person.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Exactly. I try to talk to students about even having a dialogue that they kind of memorize not to be a robot. But a lot of times students. Students will express fear, I guess. Fear or concern that they're going to run out of something to talk about. Like, they might have three things that they ask people. Where you're from, what's your major, you know, what year are you? Something like that. And then once they run out of that, they don't know how to piggyback on that onto that with another question or how to carry the conversation.
[00:15:08] Speaker C: Absolutely. I love that idea of preparing kind of a script to go in with a little bit of armor into these scary situations. But with that fear if, like you run out of your prepared material, it's always a shift of getting interested in the other person versus feeling like you're not doing enough. I think it's also really important to practice self compassion in these situations. Feeling weird, it's so often tied to being really critical and having this negative.
You have to remind yourself that so many other people feel the exact same way. With all that pressure and with more and more practice, all that discomfort is going to lessen and you'll have more confidence. So social comfort, it's also a skill and it will develop with more time and experience.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: Yeah, the more practice you get, really.
[00:15:54] Speaker C: So keep on playing the numbers game.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: It works. We'll be right back. We're going to take a quick break and then when we come back, we're so let's take a few questions from students via email. And also I want to talk about where to meet people, where to make friends, and where to meet people. So stay tuned. We'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7 the Capstone.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: WVUAFM Tuscaloosa. This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show host or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: Hey, you're back listening to brain matters on 90.7 the Capstone. I'm BJ Guenther. We're talking tonight about making and keeping friends in college. And it sounds like, you know, it really sounds like if you have an outgoing personality or you can talk to a wall like I can, it's hard to imagine not being able to make friends. But just talking to somebody is really different than actually maintaining a friendship, nurturing a friendship I talk about with students. My guest tonight is Dr. Sabr Romanoff, who's joining us from New York City. And she's a clinical psychologist. And we were talking about just ways to meet people, cues to look for, maybe to have a script ready in your head to try to think about without being so robotic because you don't want to appear.
You know, like you've really thought about it that much even though you are thinking about it. But you need to have kind of a go to when you're meeting people. And also, before we took a break, mentioned something about nurturing friendships. And Dr. Romanoff, how. How does somebody nurture? Let's say you meet somebody and we'll get to that in a minute. How to meet friends or make friends. How do you nurture a friendship? Like, how do you teach somebody to do that? Have you had that in your practice or.
[00:18:27] Speaker C: Absolutely. And look, it's a hard question, it's a great one, but difficult because every relationship and every person may need something at a different point in their life. Most important thing is to be receptive. It's not about kind of giving someone something or like bringing the fun or convincing someone to like you. Rather, it's about really being present. So I think the most helpful friends in all relationships, partners romantic or platonic, are the people who say, hey, I'm here. I'm just checking in. How are you doing? Or instead of trying to kind of force someone into something.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I call them. I call some people who have friends. I've had them. I bet you have, too. Keeping score friends. You know those. I don't know any other way to describe it other than they keep score about everything. About, like, the last time you talked, whether you texted regularly, you know, the friends who have been the closest and dearest to me are those people that you might not speak to in a couple of months and when you do, you pick right back up. They don't ask you anything about, why haven't you called me, put a guilt trip on you, or anything like that. You know what I mean?
[00:19:34] Speaker C: Absolutely. I love that. You know, friendships are complex. People are complex.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:38] Speaker C: I think the most strong relationships are ones in which we give people the benefit of the doubt within reason.
If someone's late or they forgot to respond to a text, we don't assume negative intent. We don't assume that they're protecting us, but we kind of give them space to live their lives. And that's how we really forge relationships.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: Sometimes this age group does. They go straight to the negoholicism made that word. Well, okay, let's get to, like, people. This is the number one question people ask me is, where can I meet people? Where am I supposed to be meeting these people that you're talking about? Because we talk about class. Like people would think, oh, class, you know, your classes are going to be where you meet people. I don't find that to be true with most of my students because, let's face it, most of them are Getting there right on time or a little bit late. They are not going to be talking during the class lecture and then they leave immediately when it's over with. Most people do so unless you are in like a group setting or you're working on a project where you can get to know somebody, I don't think classrooms are like the ideal place to meet people. What do you think?
[00:20:49] Speaker C: Totally agree. It's a great question and one I also hear often. Even on a campus full of students feel so intimidating and pretty unclear how you actually can connect. As a psychologist, I encourage students to look for spaces where there's repeated and low pressure interactions because relationships usually grow from consistent and shared experiences. So for example, you could join a club or a sport team or a campus organization based on something you genuinely love doing. That's a great start. You could also go to events, events at your residence hall or a cultural group or even academic departments have a lot of events. The idea is you want to build in natural opportunities to meet other people who have the same interests as you.
Study group or a volunteer opportunity or a campus job. All that could lead to meaningful connections. The key is really choosing a place where showing up regularly is really easy for you and that allows friendships to, to gradually develop. From there, it's not about meeting everyone. It's really about just finding a few people that you feel comfortable with and then building from there.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: That's right.
And not giving up if the first time you go to whatever group it is, there's only like two people there and nobody's talking.
We have on this campus, so we have a great website and I guess Resource volunteer, UA Edu, and it's like over six organizations. I mean, that's a lot. And you know, I know that students can find two or three, maybe even more than that, opportunities to meet people. But it's that it's like we've been talking about, it's taking that first step, getting them to take that risk that is so challenging sometimes for me as a therapist, you know, because they'll come in the next week and nothing's really changed. And it's, it's up to them. You know, I get that. But there's just, just on a college campus there are so many ways to meet people, just like you mentioned. And those are just a few ways. You know, there's religious organizations too. I like the sporting events because I'm a sports fanatic. So I feel like that would be a great way to bond, you know, with other students.
[00:23:14] Speaker C: Absolutely. It's kind of just like throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks and you just put yourself out there. Fingers crossed tonight.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: One of the things that I read. Let's see that. I think we have an issue here, and I don't know if that many students are really talking about. I hear a few talk about it, but it's a big issue here. And I feel like students think that they're the only ones who are not partying, who are not going out, who are not hooking up, you know, because if that culture is happening on campus, you can be made to feel like you've been left out a lot if you're not a partier. And I have students. I can't find which article this is in, but I read it and it's happening here. I have students every year that say, you know, I'm not a partier, I don't go out, I don't feel like I fit in. And in that case, sometimes when they don't fit in, maybe this isn't the right university for them. I mean, I hate to take it that drastic, but sometimes that happens where they have to leave.
What do you think? What advice would you be, Would you give to those students?
[00:24:30] Speaker C: Absolutely. It's such a valid concern and it comes up for many students.
And I would say, you know, students who aren't into the partying or drinking or hookup culture, they often feel like they're on the outside looking in. Especially if that culture seems really dominant on campus. Campus. And that sense of being like in the minority can lead to so much loneliness and so much doubt. But it's really important to know that you're not as alone as you might think or feel at times. There are so many ways to support these students. One is make values based connections like we talked about. So seek out a space outside of that group, the partying group, that aligns more with your interests and your values. Look at clubs, look at volunteer opportunities or academic groups. Friendships based on shared values. They end up being so much more meaningful and lasting. Also look at quantity. Sorry, quality over quantity. You don't need this huge friend group, really just a few people who genuinely get you deep connection. It usually starts in much smaller and much quieter rooms and spaces. It's also really important to challenge that, like everyone's doing it myth. While the culture, it's really visible and it's really out there. A lot of students aren't actually participating in this. And they also want more quiet connections outside of it. It's really about just giving it time the beginning of college can feel so socially overwhelming. But as time goes on, you're going to find the right people for you in more authentic ways. And it's so important to reach out in this process. Even if it feels really tough to connect. Talking to someone, a therapist at the counseling center, someone down, it can really help normalize the experience and help build confidence to find your social niche.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: That's right. Opening up.
[00:26:21] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: One of the first things I read, and I mentioned it early on, are social skills. And I mean, to me it's a. It's a little bit difficult to teach social skills. You know, how do you do that? How do. How would you. Because one of the articles I read, the first thing it says is making friends and meeting people. Some university students will have trouble applying the advice because their social skills are underdeveloped.
[00:26:51] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: So what's one of the first things you would tell a student who walks into your office? Not to put you on the spot, but I am kind of about how to recognize if their social skills are underdeveloped. And is that categorized as shyness? Is that the same thing?
[00:27:10] Speaker C: Great question. I think everyone can benefit from some kind of social skills training. It's very hard thing to really master.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Yes, it is.
[00:27:20] Speaker C: As a psychologist. Social skills, they improve with more intentional practice, just like every other skill we learn. So the best thing to do is start small. Create really small manageable goals, like just making eye contact with more people in class. Class or ask someone a question or bigger step is really joining a group activity.
[00:27:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a big one.
[00:27:41] Speaker C: The next thing is really just focus on listening. Show people that you're curious and just be very present in the moment. Don't try to escape or get out. And then try to reflect after what went well in that interaction. And maybe how do you want to experiment? What would you want to do next time? Overall, with practice and just more compassion, you'll get more confidence and comfortable in those situations. I really like the analogy of thinking of social skills as like starting an improv class and just having fun and seeing what happens. To try to be like more playful and to have more fun in the situation.
[00:28:18] Speaker B: One of the things I read too, and I don't think enough students do this, is to get. But I have more that are doing this, so I don't know where that's coming from, but I think it's healthy. But one of the things I read is feeling like you're thrown for a loop by the size of your new community. Because we have students we have a lot of students who are from larger cities than Tuscaloosa. We're located in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. But we have a lot of students who are coming from smaller towns, and it completely throws them for a loop to be. I mean, the campus would be 40,000, might be bigger than the town where they're from, you know, so that completely throws them for a loop. But what I was going to say is I think sometimes it's easier for students to get involved in the community than even on campus, because it's almost like.
I don't know how to say it. It's almost like the community members are more mature. That sounds really bad, but, like, maybe older, and they give help, give more confidence to the students.
Did that come out right? That didn't come out right.
[00:29:28] Speaker C: No. I think that's wonderful. The way you're talking about it reminds me, like, this is kind of an analogy for less life. You know, often you're leaving, like, where you grew up in that comfortable environment to something completely new. And we can often feel like these small fish in these really big ponds. And the goal is to try to shrink your pond to make sure that it's the one that's right for you and safe. And I like that idea of maybe branching out and doing something outside of campus that makes you feel more comfortable.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: People, when students come in and they say they're having trouble making friends, they want a quick fix. You know, they really just want me to say, okay, here's what you need to do. Get a pen. One, two, three. You know, and it's just impossible to do that because it's like what we're talking about is encompassing, you know, taking a little bit of time to develop some skills that maybe you don't have. So it's not as easy as me saying, okay, you need to go to the library. You need to sit in this chair. This is what you need to ask. It's almost like they want that.
An outline.
[00:30:30] Speaker C: Absolutely. The instant gratification generation. And it makes sense.
The metric for doing this well is just showing up and starting. You don't have to be perfect and kind of totally charismatic when you start. You just have to have the intention of putting yourself out there. It's kind of choosing to not let the anxiety hold you back, but instead putting yourself in those rooms.
[00:30:52] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:30:53] Speaker C: Most.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Let's take an email question. I don't know if we've answered this. Okay, We've kind of touched on this. When you're in college and Meeting new people. Is there a good way to judge when you, when you should try to hang out outside of class?
Extend from. I don't know what that means. Extend from being an acquaintance to a friend.
Okay, absolutely, I get it.
[00:31:22] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. And sometimes we can be unsure if someone really wants to have a stronger relationship with us. The only way we can ever really find out though is by taking a risk. So again, the idea is to start really small and gradual. If you're making kind of a strong connection with someone in class or you're joking around with them, think what's the next really natural step to make with them? Is it asking them to walk with you to the library or to meet up after next class to get a coffee? And just creating these small bids can show. Yeah, like this person is also reciprocating interest and then slowly build a relationship from there.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: I think some people don't trust their own instincts as to whether or not someone is enjoying talking to them because. And that goes back to low self esteem, maybe feeling like you're boring or that you don't have anything that anybody would be interested in hearing. You know, and so when they're carrying, when they're trying to talk to somebody, they're very sensitive or maybe in tune with any little thing. Like if a person looks off, they're not interested, you know, any, any little thing will kind of send them into a spiral and then they'll, they'll give up and not keep trying.
[00:32:41] Speaker C: Absolutely. Look, social anxiety, it can conflate our ability to really assess people around us because it gets put on us and we think we're not good enough or we're projecting our own self criticism into how other people might think of us. It's so important to really understand social anxiety and if that really is impacting how you're approaching people on campus.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: What about, what do you think about. Are there any apps for making friends in there? 1. I can't remember the name of it because I think somebody told me about it. Is it, what's it called? Do you remember what I'm talking about?
[00:33:18] Speaker C: The Bumble bff.
[00:33:21] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I've heard of Bumble, but I thought there was another one that was just for making friends.
[00:33:28] Speaker C: So I think that that one that I've heard of, it's a dating app, but you can just use the section for making friends on the app.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: What do you think about those?
[00:33:38] Speaker C: I have a lot of clients actually that have used them and have loved them. A safer way of what we're talking about, like putting yourself out there and connecting and kind of seeing if there is kind of a spark platonically between someone. It doesn't feel. Feel as scary like the stick.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: Right. And you can practice, you know, it's a good way to get some practice in and build your confidence up.
What about losing friends? I jotted these notes down. Sometimes I forget what I mean when I jot them down, you know, losing friends. I have students who come in and they've lost their friend group and so. And they may be juniors. We're not necessarily talking about just freshmen.
I think it's more common with freshmen who are just arriving here on campus. But I do have some who lose friends and forget kind of how to make friends and they're kind of having to start over again.
I guess it would be basically the same advice, but I feel like it's a little bit different because they have made friends already here.
[00:34:44] Speaker C: Absolutely. And that can be a huge blow to your self confidence.
You have to try to shift it though, because it ultimately is a blessing. It's creating space for new relationships in your life.
A lot of people can internalize that and think, oh, there's something wrong with me. And then they might kind of become more reclusive. And instead you have to just keep on trying and putting yourself out there. It's such an analogy for life. You're gonna go through so many relationships and groups and you can't really let that hold you back or stop. You have to keep on trying.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
Let's take another break and then when we come back, we'll do our final section. And we've got another email question. It's a long one, but it's a good question. So we'll take another break and we'll be right back. You're listening to brain matters on 90.7, the capstone.
[00:35:42] Speaker A: WVUAFM Tuscaloosa. This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:36:22] Speaker B: Hey, you're back listening to brain matters on 90.7 the Capstone. I'm Dr. B.J. guenther. We're talking tonight about making and keeping friends at college. And it's a lot harder than some people think. We have a huge Greek system here on the campus of the University of Alabama that people tell me sometimes this is why they come to ua. And it's a really smaller percentage than a lot of people think. I have students who are not in a sorority or a fraternity say they don't feel like they can make friends as easily because they're not Greeks. And I have to remind them that it is a smaller percentage than what it appears. Dr. Sabrina Romanoff is our guest tonight. She's a clinical psychologist in New York City. And we were talking about apps, you know, that you might could join. I think it'd be good practice. And another thing we were talking about is you've got to practice these skills that you're trying to acquire or these new skills for you that maybe you've never had even in high school. Maybe you know. So what do you think about the Greek system situation here on college campuses? Sometimes, I guess I can say this. Sometimes I feel like you make friends easier. But that doesn't always pan out. It doesn't always mean they're healthy relationships. I'll say it that way.
[00:37:48] Speaker C: Absolutely. There can be a lot of complications when it comes to the Greek system. One is that there's these built in social hierarchy, each house or each school year frat. They could feel like they have this specific reputation and it's kind of like a way of perpetuating the clicks in high school. So like you mentioned, it can feel like people are kind of stuck with those groups. And oftentimes they're not the friends you choose or the friends that you get lumped into. There's pros and cons to the Greek system. In one hand it's kind of a great way to make these built in connections. But in other ways it could feel a little bit forced. And once you have those relationships, you might not want to do some of those things that are involved in Greek life.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And sometimes I have noticed that if you're in a sorority or a fraternity, it's almost like it spoils you a little bit. And that might be the wrong word to use, but it's almost like you forget how to make friends outside of that. And so when something does happen, they're lost a lot of times where they just because it came so easily for them, them as a freshman.
But then if something happens, like I said, they become lost and they don't know what to do. And it makes It a lot more distressing for that student.
[00:39:10] Speaker C: I think that's such a great point. I think social skills have largely atrophied with the pandemic and so many other.
A lot of our social interactions have moved online and it hasn't given us so many opportunities to really make connections, which is why building is so hard. And I think what you're saying is that it's good to be on your toes because discomfort, it keeps you really sharp and it's actually a gift. Yeah.
[00:39:35] Speaker B: It's not a bad thing, right?
[00:39:37] Speaker C: Absolutely. My father always said, like, being anxious is actually a great thing. It means you're totally alert, you're totally focused.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:39:44] Speaker C: You could use it to help you.
[00:39:45] Speaker B: I tell students it's okay, you know, you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable because this is going to happen throughout your life no matter what. You know, at a job, you know, in a relationship, it's just going to happen. So let's get to that other question, and I don't think we've answered it. How do you make sure when you start talking to people of the opposite gender that you are not flirting while still being nice and sociable? How can I talk to and be friends with guys without the concern that they will think I like them? That's a good one.
[00:40:17] Speaker C: That's a great question.
I think ultimately you can kind of like trick your mind in some ways to imagine this person is not threatening. The people who really struggle with making friends of the opposite gender, they might have more difficulty with self esteem in terms of dating or romantic relationships. And you could kind of trick your mind to thinking, how can I see this person in a platonic way? Maybe you can imagine them as a sibling or like imagine another relationship in which the other person of the opposite sex really connected with you, they really accepted you and you didn't have any of these feelings. Years I love using this trick of, you know, when you're about to meet someone new, imagine that they're like, they love you, they've known you your whole life and that they're not really judging you. Like in the case of this example, they're not misinterpreting your interests and they're not kind of wondering how you feel about them. They know and they totally accept you.
[00:41:14] Speaker B: You may have to really be honest with them too at some point. You know, I mean, it could come down to that. I've had that conversation with students before too. And also watch your, watch your physical cues too. You know, an example that I think about is like touching somebody, not inappropriate, but you know, touching somebody or making eye contact directly. You just never know what triggers somebody to think that maybe you might want something more than just friendship, but you may have to be honest with them eventually.
[00:41:48] Speaker C: Absolutely. Direct communication is always the best way to kind of of be speaking of discomfort, a moment of discomfort and kind of honesty can save you so much hurt long term.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: What do you think are. I mean, I know we've talked about this the whole time, but really narrow it down. What do you think are the problems that students have when they can't make friends? What do you see it? Do you think it is the low self esteem? Do you think it's the low confidence? What is it really?
[00:42:20] Speaker C: I think you've hit it. It's really a conflation or kind of a combination of a lot of different variables. Mostly I would say low self esteem is really common. People don't assume that other people will like them or they reject themselves and then don't give other people the chance to really accept them. A lot of people also struggle with past experiences of rejection especially.
And so they're kind of scarred or they have some trauma when it comes to past relationships and they don't want to put them themselves back into that situation.
[00:42:50] Speaker B: I really think that's the biggest one. I really do. And most people, like I mentioned early on in the show, most people don't even think about that unless I ask about it. And then they're like, oh, they put it together. You can see the light bulb sometimes. Come on, look.
[00:43:05] Speaker C: It's a rite of passage. People, especially kids, can be really cruel. I think we've all had experiences. Oh yeah, really difficult friendship dynamics. And it can be really hard to put ourselves back out there and kind of in the line of fire. But it's usually worth it if we're going to make lifelong connections. And we have to get through that discomfort. It's not easy though, especially in college. You're adjusting to this whole new environment and it can be really scary. There's also so much academic pressure and a lot of people have mental health challenges like depression. And I think on top of that you have all this time constraint, you have work, you're balancing family responsibilities and it could can make it so much harder to figure out like where does friendship fit into this new life.
[00:43:49] Speaker B: We have a few commuter students who either live in the community here and they're not on campus a lot or they commute from Birmingham, which is about 50 miles away. What do you tell those Students the same advice. Basically. I feel like they almost have to work harder.
[00:44:08] Speaker C: Definitely. Commuter students, they often face very unique challenges when it comes to making new friends, including college. But connection is absolutely still possible.
I have a few tips for them. One is try to plan time on campus beyond just class time. So it's really important to get to class early or stay after class if you can. Basically, you just want to give yourself more opportunities to socialize. You could also study in common areas. Try to attend campus events.
Also, just be more intentional about getting involved.
[00:44:42] Speaker B: So that's a good word. Yes.
[00:44:44] Speaker C: Join clubs, join organizations or groups that really interest you.
A lot of these groups are very welcoming to commuters and they meet at times that can work with a driving schedule.
[00:44:57] Speaker B: Yeah, that's going to be the important one, the schedule. I'm glad you said that.
[00:45:01] Speaker C: Absolutely. That scheduling is really difficult and you have to be a little bit more strategic and plan ahead. So you have to use the study lounges or use the library or even the campus Cabinet Cafe. That could be a really great place to meet people and have conversation on top of studying. So it's kind of like two birds, one stone. And also try to connect through your classes. Studying groups are such a great and low pressure way to build connection, like initiating a group chat or offering to share your notes. That could be a great way to open the door to a friend.
And you can also talk about being a commuter. You are definitely not alone. Being open about commuting, that could be a really great point of connection with other people, People who probably feel the exact same way.
[00:45:46] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I think you have to. If you're a commuter student, you have to accept that you have to be, like you said, a little more intentional, work a little harder because your time is limited to when you're here on campus. So.
[00:46:00] Speaker C: Yeah. And you just have to be really consistent, like with everything else in life. You know, friendships, they grow after repeated interactions. So you have to really try to stick to. To maybe similar times on campus or try to go to the same group event. And then familiar faces, they turn into relationships over time. So it might take a little bit more effort. But commuter students, they can absolutely find very strong connections and a sense of belonging on campus.
[00:46:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm working with a student now who's having a little trouble meeting and making friends. And she said something to me about, I saw one of my classmates out, like at a restaurant or something, or they were at a speaking event or something, and she said, I went over and said, hey, you know, and I was like, this is huge. Like, this is huge. But she kind of acted like, should I have done that? You know, almost like wanting permission. I was like, no, this is how you do that. That's great. You know, and she didn't think. I told her, I said, she didn't think you were weird or anything like that. You started talking and this is how you do it. And you just kind of tag on to that and nurse nurture it.
[00:47:08] Speaker C: Absolutely. That's wonderful. That must have been such a nice moment for you to see her take that risk.
[00:47:13] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:47:14] Speaker C: I think the fear of rejection and uncertainty, it's so terrifying. But it's really like building a muscle. You just need more practice and intention.
[00:47:22] Speaker B: Definitely give us. Before we wrap up, give us some tips. I mean, give us some resources. Excuse me, Any resources. Any books, websites, apps, anything that might help students who are listening?
[00:47:33] Speaker C: Absolutely. There's some really great resources and practical tools to support students who are trying to make more friends in college. Here's a few I find helpful. So one is just articles from Psychology Today. They have a whole friendship section and it gives really practical advice and short reads on social connection. I find it fascinating. I also talk a lot about relationships on Instagram. You can find some tips and tools there at Dr. Sabrina Romanoff.
There's two books I also love. One is Platonic by Marissa Franco, and it's basically the Psychologist Guide of Making and Keeping Friends. And it's rooted in attachment theory and research, which I found really great. The second book is the Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin.
[00:48:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:48:17] Speaker C: Oh, you've heard of it?
[00:48:18] Speaker B: I do. I know that, yes.
[00:48:20] Speaker C: It's great. So it's broader, but it has really helpful insights just about connection in general and building relationships. And last but not least, use your campus resources. The Counseling center sounds fantastic. There's often groups and workshops and especially one on one support.
And also the student involvement center or commuter office. You can connect with other students based on interests, clubs, events, and just really get out there.
[00:48:48] Speaker B: Yes. And we have two events at the beginning of each semester, get on Board Day. And also when we come in the fall, when we start in the fall, we do weeks of welcome is what we call it. So get involved with that. I try to point my students to those events. As scared as they may be, it's good for them to do that. So that's. Thank you so much.
That was great. And it goes by so fast. Can you think of anything else you need to add?
[00:49:14] Speaker C: No. It was so lovely speaking with you and please feel free anyone listening to reach out to me by email or through Instagram. I'm so happy to talk and connect and help in any way.
Thank you so much, Dr. Guenther. It was so great to be here and to speak with you.
[00:49:29] Speaker B: So much fun. Thank you so much. I'll make some announcements, but I know you have to go. I appreciate you. Thank you. Don't forget our shows are recorded and podcasted on the Apple Podcasts, audioboom.com and voices.uaedu. just type in Brain Matters and you'll find some of our past shows. There's also a link to Voices UA Edu on our Counseling Center's website. That's at Counseling ua Edu. I always like to thank a few people who've made the show possible every week. Dr. Greg Vanderwaal, he's our executive director here at the Counseling Center, My producer and colleague Katherine Howell, who will be back, I think in two weeks. My colleagues here at the Counseling Center, Katherine Ratchford, who is editing our show and edits it every week, and the WVUA staff and of course my guest tonight, Dr. Sabrina Romanoff. Don't forget, we're on next week. I think we're skipping a week and then we're back on the Week of Possibly Dead Week. But our that show is going to be interesting and one that I talk to students about more often than I could really believe. Nightmares versus Night terrors is going to be the topic. So if you have a chance, listen to us again on 90.7 where brain matters. And thanks again for listening tonight. Good night.
[00:50:50] Speaker A: This show was not intended as a substitute for professional counseling. Further, the views, opinions and conclusions expressed by the show hosts or their guests are their own and not necessarily those of the University of Alabama, its officers or trustees. Any views, opinions or conclusions shared on the show do not create a relationship between the host or any guest and any listener, and such a relationship should never be inferred. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UAE student, Please contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
