Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling Center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's cris service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Again, for Brain Matters, the official radio show of the UA Counseling Center, we are broadcasting from the campus of the University of Alabama.
[00:00:50] Speaker C: Good evening.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: My name is Dr. B. J. Gunther, and I'm the host of the show, along with my colleague and producer Catherine Howell. And in case you don't know, the show is about mental and physical health issues that affect college students and in particular, UA students. You can listen to us each Tuesday night at 06:00 P.m. On 90.7 FM, or you can listen online at wvuafm ua.edu. You can also download the Mytuner Radio app and type in Wvuafm 90.7 and get our shows that way. Also, if you have any ideas for upcoming shows, please email those to me at braymattersradio at wvuafm ua.edu. And of course, I'll consider using your show topic ideas. I've even gotten some ideas this week. I was just checking my email on some show topics that we've done in the past, but maybe it's been a while and I think it'd be a good idea to revisit that. So no idea is too much for us, I don't think, or too inappropriate, necessarily. We've done all kinds of shows over the last ten years that we've been doing this show, so definitely email those to me. I'll try to remember to give out the email throughout the show, but again, it's Brainmattersradio at wvuafm ua.edu. We are probably halfway through, maybe a little over halfway through this semester. So we have several shows to go and then we'll do the spring shows, which will be about twelve or 13 shows. So we do need some more topics for our next season, for next semester.
This topic tonight, I was just talking to our guest and saying that I'm surprised I've never done this topic because honestly, I have seen several students with this issue and for some reason access to online information about our health. It can be empowering and might even help you advocate for your care with your physician. But for others, googling symptoms can send you down a long, scary rabbit hole, leading you to believe that you have a serious or even deadly health condition. And when this happens, it's sometimes referred to cyber Chondria. I'd never heard of this until I researched it a little bit, and it's akin to hypochondria, which you've probably heard of and what they now call, I believe, health anxiety. So my guest tonight is going to help us navigate this topic. Dr. Diane Gran. Dr. Gran is a licensed clinical psychologist in private practice. She's worked with individuals, couples, and families in the Chicago metro area for over 25 years. So thanks for being on the show, Dr. Gran.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: My pleasure.
[00:03:26] Speaker B: Tell the listeners a little more about yourself, about your credentials and why you're interested in this topic.
[00:03:33] Speaker C: Sure.
As you said, I've worked as a clinical psychologist for over 25 years, most of that as a therapist, some of it doing research, and as an undergrad. I studied biology at Brown University. Then I went on to get a Master's in Psychology and a doctorate in clinical psychology from Loyola University of Chicago.
So over the years, I've worked in a good range of sites, all the way from VA clinics with veterans, one college counseling center, several hospitals, nursing homes, and mostly private practice groups over the past ten years.
So a lot of my work has been with patients and clients that also have physical symptoms.
Most people have stress related symptoms at some point in their life, and I found that many of my clients in these settings had physical symptoms that seemed to be worsened when they were under stress. So I've always been interested in connection between mind and body, but my work has made me even more interested in understanding that connection.
In particular, how stress can worsen illness.
[00:05:11] Speaker B: Yes, we can get into that too, because a lot of the research I did for the show talked about how closely stress is related or exacerbates, really? Hypochondriacists and cyochondria, which I had never heard of this term. Do you know when that term started being used, and what is it? Define cyber Condria for those people who are listening that have no idea what we're talking about.
[00:05:37] Speaker C: Okay, I'll give you the history for it. The term started getting thrown around some 20 years ago, but it wasn't taken seriously then because it was just a term that journalists came up only sort of tongue in cheek about people that were hypochondriacs. But for the past few years, it's been taken more seriously as an issue.
And what it generally means to people in healthcare and doing research on it is that condition where there's a preoccupation with having an illness and persistent concerns about health.
But there are five traits that are unique that make it cybondria. I can get into that more later.
[00:06:34] Speaker B: Yeah, no, go ahead and talk about those traits because they're unique. Are they different from hypochondria, would you say?
[00:06:40] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a good point to start with, because technically, healthcare providers don't use the term hypochondria anymore.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:51] Speaker C: It was taken out of a DSM, and what used to be labeled hypochondria is more often now either somatic symptom disorder or illness. Anxiety disorder.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:07:09] Speaker C: Of that group, huge percentage actually have somatic symptom disorder. And that's where you have specific, really annoying symptoms like severe headache or severe pain. Of some type and those symptoms cause concern. But the other 25% people that would have been in the hypochondriac category are considered to have illness anxiety because they don't really have any specific significant symptoms. They just feel like something must be wrong with me. So it's a vague anxiety.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: Yes. Which I think sometimes makes it worse because that keeps them continuing to search for answers because it is so vague.
[00:08:05] Speaker C: Right.
They often don't go to physicians. The people that go to physicians have the somatic symptoms because they say, this is bothering me, what do you think is causing it? But people with general illness anxiety don't necessarily go to their doctor to find out what could be wrong, if anything.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: Right, because they're still functioning just fine generally. Yeah.
Is the illness anxiety disorder, would that be the same as what I've read? Is health anxiety? Is that yes.
[00:08:43] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: Just called something else because I've had students tell me they feel like they have health anxiety because they've googled that they've diagnosed themselves with health anxiety.
[00:08:56] Speaker C: Well, that can be a start if they can acknowledge that the core problem is anxiety and then agree to get treatment for that.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: So talk about the five traits.
[00:09:09] Speaker C: Okay, well, the first one, which probably seems obvious is that compulsive searching online for health information.
So not just a quick 20 minutes scan to see what might I do about this? But usually for several hours a day, this kind of searching goes on. The second trait is when the searching actually causes more distress. Instead of giving some relief, it actually gets the person more worried.
[00:09:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:47] Speaker C: A third trait is just the sheer amount of time spent searching as opposed to okay, I've checked this out, but I don't want to miss coffee with my friends or I don't want to miss class, or whatever else should be probably the priority for that time.
Fourth, we have actually seeking reassurance from the online source.
So it's not just searching because you're curious like a medical student might be, but you're looking for reassurance.
And the fifth trait is more vague, but it's generally present some sort of mistrust of medical professionals whose advice you could get in person to sort of put the worry to rest.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: I think that is probably when I talk to individuals who I suspect may have this going on.
That's the most frustrating aspect because they can list the numerous physicians that they've seen who have basically ruled out everything a lot and it's like what is it going to take to reassure them?
One of the articles that I read talked about one of the signs of cyber Chondria was a compulsive need to recheck their symptoms online. You talked about that taking up so much time. I think I even read, I don't know, one to 3 hours researching somebody. One of the articles would you say this is akin to even OCD for those listening obsessive compulsive disorder.
Do you think this would be under the umbrella of OCD?
[00:11:50] Speaker C: Well, that's another great question. There's a strong correlation with OCD, but I wouldn't put it under that umbrella because many people with OCD don't have cyprondria.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:04] Speaker C: But there is a strong correlation, just as there is with some other disorders.
But it does become a compulsive behavior, and a really important thing to know about that is the searching, when it's compulsive can actually lead to cyber contract, even if it didn't necessarily start out that way. So there's your connection with OCD again.
[00:12:34] Speaker B: And later on we'll talk about treatments, and I want to ask you later on about treatment with regards to OCD. Is it treated the same way as you would treat someone with OCD? So hold that thought while we go to our first break, and maybe we'll come back and continue talking about some of the signs and some of the causes and whether or not is this genetic also. So stay tuned. You're listening to Brain Matters on 90.7 the capstone.
Tuscaloosa.
[00:13:18] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling Center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's cris service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: You're back listening to Brain Matters on 90.7 the Capstone. I'm Dr. B. J. Gunther, and we're talking tonight about cyber Chondria and hypochondria, which is not a term that's used anymore. Dr. Diane grand is my guest. She's a licensed clinical psychologist in Chicago right now. And thank goodness you're on the Same time zone as we are, because a lot of my guests are not, and some are on Eastern, so they stay later to be on the show. And I appreciate that.
But when we left off, we were talking about the similarities and the compulsiveness sometimes of searching the Internet for causes and just reasons why somebody might feel like they do. Is the Internet a common trigger for health anxiety?
[00:14:49] Speaker C: It absolutely is.
There are so many reasons that the Internet itself can be a trigger, because there's just too much information out there that's easily accessed, and a lot of it is not accurate, as most people know. There's a lot of it that's just not accurate.
Some of the sites are motivated to put up inaccurate information just to get more hits for clicks or whatever so that their sites visited more often.
But people really need to be careful about which sites they search when they're looking for information.
And then there's also the fact that even when there's no mal intent, the search engines are set up to show the information that's most often viewed. So if people are spending more time, we're more likely to search the more serious conditions.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: That's going to come up more often, isn't it?
[00:15:57] Speaker C: Yeah, that's scary.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: That's scary. And we'll talk later about treatment and how to cope with this. But it's just scary to think about how addictive it is, how addictive it can be.
We just talked about some of the signs, but what are some of the causes of this? We talked a little bit about stress. Can you talk a little more about stress and some of the other causes?
[00:16:27] Speaker C: Sure.
I'm going to talk about it mostly in terms of correlations because unfortunately we don't really know the cause.
But there are a few things that probably factor in as causes and lots of situations that correlate. So one of the strongest correlations is with generalized anxiety disorder and it's been estimated that 71% of people with cyprondria also have a general ##ized anxiety disorder, which is the most commonly diagnosed anxiety disorder, meaning not necessarily panic or anxiety attacks, but vague anxiety most of the time that's a high correlate.
So correlations that could be causes include past trauma, someone who's been through either a single event trauma or chronic.
It could be chronic unmanaged stress. That could be anything from academic stress for students, work related stress. It could be interpersonal stress. It doesn't really matter what the source is.
And another factor that I think is also a cause in some cases there are people that are born with what we call acute interoception and that's when you have a particular awareness of sensations within your own body.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: Oh, yes, I have a student right now who I can say I'm working with who he is very sensitive to this sounds to bodily sensations.
[00:18:28] Speaker C: Very sensitive, exactly.
You could see it in some children. Some children might complain of a stomach ache and they look so upset and distressed by it, thinking I'm really sick.
But it's the same level of stomach ache that the average child might have and not think much of it. Just wait an hour and you never even hear anything about.
There could be some overlap of that with autism, but that's just very hypothetical. I don't have research on that. Just kind of makes sense to me.
Another situation that you could think of as a cause would be someone who's previously had a serious or life threatening illness.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: To me I think that is more understandable than any of the other possible causes because I think anybody could just about relate to that.
[00:19:33] Speaker C: Yeah, sure. Like someone who's a cancer survivor might think, oh no, is this a recurrence?
[00:19:40] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:41] Speaker C: And would naturally be concerned.
Those are some of the correlates and causes. Of course, I think you mentioned this earlier. Anyone that doesn't have much confidence in physicians in general is likely to search online and get caught up in cybercrime.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Maybe they've had a bad experience with a physician, or maybe somebody has even discounted maybe they've had a healthcare professional who's kind of even made fun of them a little bit or discounted and even labeled them, oh, you're just a hypochondriac.
[00:20:21] Speaker C: That is so harmful. Yes, I think that's very harmful if physicians do that, because a lot of people with this type of anxiety already feel embarrassed about having it.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:35] Speaker C: The worst thing you can do is shame them for having things.
[00:20:38] Speaker B: That's right, because a lot of people are insightful. They know what's going on, and they think they cannot help it. They think they cannot stop it, or they don't have control over it.
[00:20:49] Speaker C: Right.
[00:20:52] Speaker B: I mentioned before the break, what about genetics? Do you think it runs in families? Is it genetic or is it modeled by parents?
[00:21:01] Speaker C: Right. Yeah, I think it could be both. The genetic aspect of it, from what I've seen, is that interoception? Because I think that's something you're born with, if it's acute or if it's disrupted anything not within a normal range. But then there's also the family history, because you're right, it's modeled. That's something I mentioned. I wrote an article for Psychology Today about illness anxiety disorder and how parents can minimize the chances that their children will have it. And one of the tips was don't overstate your own illness anxiety in front of your children. Deal with it with the other adults. But if you model that anxiety, your children were likely to be they're going.
[00:21:56] Speaker B: To pick it up, and they're going to pick it up young yeah, right. One of the things I read, too. What do you think about somebody doing this for attention?
[00:22:06] Speaker C: Sure, that can happen.
I kind of downplayed that role because I think if they're needing attention, it's probably because they're under stress.
Most people that need attention because they have a more narcissistic personality are not likely to act it out this way because if they're just searching online, they usually don't even tell people they're doing it. So the person who's making frequent complaints about their health might be needing attention, especially young children, but the person searching online is probably not doing it for that reason.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: No, it's going to be different usually, and it's easier to identify, I think, don't you? And diagnose.
[00:23:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:04] Speaker B: What about if somebody we talked about the symptoms.
What differentiates health anxiety from is it just the Internet searching? That's really the main difference between health anxiety and the cyber Chondria, because cyberchondria, like, we're talking about really it's not an official diagnosis, right, that's true.
[00:23:31] Speaker C: Yeah. The Internet searching is a critical difference.
The compulsive aspect to it, the fact that the searching goes on for hours, and the person feels sort of driven to do it, whereas you can have illness anxiety and not really spend hours doing anything in particular, anything compulsive, just have this vague, constant worry about your health.
[00:23:58] Speaker B: In your research, did you find how common this is.
[00:24:05] Speaker C: It's actually fairly common. Well, the distinction is some 90% of people search online about their symptoms.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:24:15] Speaker C: So that's extremely common. The percentage that actually has cyochondria, we're probably down to 15%, maybe because it's only a portion of people who are concerned about health to technically call it fibrochandria. You can't have specific severe symptoms. So we're talking about a very small percentage, really, that fit that category the way it's defined now.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: Yeah, we're not necessarily saying that it's a bad thing to do because there are some reputable sites that may help people, may ease people's worries and anxiety. I'm sure you found that in your research, too.
[00:25:05] Speaker C: Yeah, that's very true. In fact, this kind of gets into the prevention and treatment aspect. But one of the key steps in treatment is to redirect people towards sites that are more credible, more reputable.
[00:25:27] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:25:29] Speaker C: Those are usually Gov type of sites, like MedlinePlus. Gov has legitimate information.
PubMed has legitimate even some of the big clinics like Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, those are good sites for health information.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: Those are pretty safe to do your research.
Let's take another break, and when we come back, let's talk about some co occurring disorders. You've already mentioned generalized anxiety disorder, touched a little bit on personality disorders, but let's talk about some more that go along with this, if you don't mind. We'll be right back. You're listening to Brain Matter.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling Center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: Hey, you're back listening to Brain Matters on 90.7 the Capstone. I'm BJ Gunther, and we're talking tonight about cyber Chondria and health anxiety or Hypochondria, which is called actually it's in the DSM as illness anxiety disorder and or somatic symptom disorder. So those are two different things. We really don't use the term Hypochondriacy anymore professionally, but most people still know that term, and that's the term most people use now. Cyprondria is a totally different thing. Even though it's been around for years, most people really aren't aware that this is a term that exists now and that a lot of people are doing this. Dr. Diane grand is my guest tonight. She's a licensed clinical psychologist in Chicago right now in private practice. And actually the way I found out about this term was doing some research and finding the article that you wrote for, was it good therapy?
[00:28:10] Speaker C: Choosing Therapy.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: Choosing Therapy, yes is the site. And she wrote a short but very informative article that we're really kind of digging through and talking about okay.
[00:28:24] Speaker C: Yeah.
You had asked at one point about the co occurring disorders, and that is what really makes cyprond so difficult to clearly identify.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:28:37] Speaker C: There's not even any agreement among researchers as to whether it's a distinct problem or just part of other problems at this point. It's not a standalone sort of diagnosis.
It's considered a problem that can come from others and exacerbate others.
It can be related to somatic symptom disorder where you have actual symptoms. In fact, you can have somatic symptom disorder in cyprond, according to some people.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:29:17] Speaker C: Others. One rules out the other. So that's debatable.
It's highly correlated with compulsive behavior and OCD traits.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:29:30] Speaker C: It's even more highly correlated with generalized anxiety disorder.
[00:29:35] Speaker B: Right. You mentioned the 71% usually have that diagnosis.
[00:29:43] Speaker C: Yes.
There's also a strong correlation with post traumatic stress disorder.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: Oh, really? Yeah.
[00:29:51] Speaker C: I don't have statistics on that, but it sort of makes sense. People that have been through trauma earlier in life and have the signs of post traumatic stress, this would be another way that their anxiety might be manifest.
There's some correlation with psychosis. I wouldn't overplay that because I don't think most people with cyber Chondria also have psychosis. I think that's a smaller correlation. And then there's some correlation with personality disorders, which you referred to earlier when you asked about attention seeking.
If you're talking about illness, anxiety in general, that could be explained by attention seeking behavior that you can see with borderline personality and histrionic.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: Histrionic? Yes. I was going to ask you about histrionic.
Have you actually diagnosed someone with Somatic symptom disorder?
[00:31:05] Speaker C: I would not because I'm not a physician. But what I would do, I would strongly suggest to that person that they've already seen their medical professional and had medical causes ruled out.
Then they consider psychotherapy, at least in the short term, to address the factor of stress in their problems.
[00:31:33] Speaker B: Well, I was just wondering because I was wondering how receptive people are when you talk about this with them. If they really aren't aware and they're just very stressed and worried about whatever the Ailment is or ailments are, if you confront them about what you suspect, do they become defensive?
[00:31:56] Speaker C: Yeah. That is a serious problem with the medical community actually going to talk more about that if you have time, because that is a serious problem for physicians. They have reported that when you get down to that small group of clients for whom they can't find any physical cause of the problem, only about 10% of those people to whom they recommend therapy will follow up and seek therapy. That, to me, is tragic.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:30] Speaker C: They could all be helped, at least to some degree by therapy to address their anxiety.
[00:32:37] Speaker B: Why do you think that is?
[00:32:39] Speaker C: I think part of it is people are afraid of the stigma. There's still, sadly, a stigma having mental illness.
Some of it is that they're just already convinced that they have an illness and they will not be convinced of anything else.
People tend to believe what they want to believe. I've seen that too often. That applies to illnesses, too.
[00:33:10] Speaker B: And sometimes they've just been in this comfortable rut for so long, like you said, they just don't want to let go of it. That become their identity almost, with some I'm sure, a small population.
[00:33:23] Speaker C: Sure. Yes. I've seen some people cling to a diagnosis for years. I know, years. And with no medical evidence and multiple physicians telling them this doesn't have a medical cause, and it's not something we can treat medically.
[00:33:41] Speaker B: And it makes them mad.
It makes them mad or defensive, maybe.
[00:33:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
One of the consequences sometimes they argue with their physician, say you're wrong, or you don't know, or you're not competent, or whatever.
[00:33:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
Gets ugly.
It can get ugly.
How does untreated cyber Chondria or health anxiety, how does that affect one's mental health?
[00:34:16] Speaker C: It can cause other problems, of course, because if you start with the assumption that's highly related to that person's stress, then the consequences can include any of the consequences of untreated stress.
So you can have more symptoms of depression over time?
[00:34:39] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:34:40] Speaker C: Some people kind of collapse into hopelessness or helplessness, thinking there's just nothing that's going to give me relief.
They might, especially those that are prone to depression, can have more negative expectations about their well being. Things like, I'm never going to feel better, which isn't true, but they start to believe that untreated, it can definitely affect the quality of their life because they might be skipping out on more fun activities or more productive activities.
[00:35:19] Speaker B: Yes. Takes up a lot of time to do that much research online.
[00:35:25] Speaker C: It can worsen obsessive compulsive.
So searching online, even though it's for the purpose of getting reassurance, usually doesn't give them reassurance.
[00:35:40] Speaker B: No.
[00:35:42] Speaker C: Very temporarily. And it actually reinforces online searching. So it just worsens. OCD, if that's already treated.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: Right.
On the positive side, though, how treatable is this?
[00:36:01] Speaker C: It's actually very treatable.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: That's what I thought. Yeah.
[00:36:05] Speaker C: There's good success with the best treatment that has some evidence behind it is called mindfulness based Cognitive Behavioral therapy. So most people have heard of cognitive behavioral therapy or CBD, but it's been modified to have a base in mindfulness treatment, which is a subset of cognitive behavioral therapy. And when that's added in, people show significantly less health anxiety than those that are either not treated or just have standard CBT.
So it is highly treatable, then.
Cognitive behavioral therapy, as your audience probably knows it, does require learning some new simple skills like deep breathing techniques to relax, or deep muscle relaxation. There's a whole range of skills that you can learn. Some of it's simple, some of it takes practice.
But I have some clients that just right off the bat, reject behavioral therapy. They don't want homework. They don't want to learn skills. Okay.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: I do, too. And they'll tell me things like and I know Catherine's probably had this, too. They'll tell me things like, I've tried that and it didn't you know, when you really dig a little deeper, they've tried it one time, and you have to be consistent with it. You know that. I know that. But they get very discouraged very quickly.
[00:37:55] Speaker C: They do. Yeah, they do.
And sometimes if I just can't convince them to keep trying and practicing, that a second therapy that's pretty successful with cyber Chondra is rationally Emotive therapy, where the person learns to think differently in response to those unusual signals that they get from their body.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: Let me ask you this, Dr. Grant. How do you start that narrative with them? How do you get them to buy into that?
[00:38:35] Speaker C: To buy into the rational Emotive therapy?
[00:38:37] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:38:38] Speaker C: I try to get them to think of examples from their own life where if they have a certain belief and they can change that belief about even one thing in their life, they start to feel better about that situation.
So they start to experience in their own day to day activity how their thought about a situation changes how they feel about it.
That's the key to rational.
[00:39:09] Speaker B: That's the premises. Right. It seems like a very simple theory, but sometimes it is hard to get people until they try it and it works. And once they try it, and it works. But don't you think that your clients have to have an attitude of wanting it to work?
[00:39:32] Speaker C: Yes, they do. Yes, that's so true with any therapy, really?
Even more true with all the behavioral therapies, whereas supportive therapy, that's more client centered or analytic.
People come around after a longer time. But for the behavioral therapies, which are usually more short term, people have to want it to work.
[00:40:02] Speaker B: Yeah. I was reading one of the articles I read, and I'm trying to find it right now about how negativity really impacts this issue, this problem, and I can't find where that is. But this is basically along the lines of what we're talking about.
[00:40:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: Have attitude really makes a difference. You have clients with more positive attitude. They're more hopeful. And it seems like this rational motive therapy, even CBT, even mindfulness based cognitive therapy, works faster.
[00:40:41] Speaker C: Yes, that's definitely true. I think you were talking about what we sometimes call negativity bias.
It's for those individuals that kind of go to the bad news when they read something or hear about something, their mind just goes to the most threatening stimuli. And I think that highly correlates with anxiety, but it tends to be a bias they have in life in general, and it overlaps with their concerns about their health.
[00:41:18] Speaker B: Right.
If that's the way they've thought their entire life, it does take some time to turn the ship around.
Oh, yes, it takes some work. What do you. Think about medications.
[00:41:32] Speaker C: Medications can be helpful.
Interestingly, it's not usually the antianxiety medications that help so much with this condition, because the key feature isn't so much feeling anxious like it would be with illness anxiety.
[00:41:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:41:52] Speaker C: But if you're treating this cyber Chondria with its compulsive behavior, the medication that seems to work better are the SSRI.
[00:42:05] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:06] Speaker C: Class of antidepressants.
And they seem to be more helpful because they limit that obsessive thinking about being ill.
[00:42:19] Speaker B: Talking about something like Prozac.
[00:42:22] Speaker C: Yeah, the SSRIs, they're selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
But people should definitely consult with their physician to get a prescription. Those are all prescription only, but they are helpful, especially when there's a strong compulsive aspect to the hypochondria when people are searching for hours online.
[00:42:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
Let's take our last break, and when we come back, let's quickly talk about how to help someone who you suspect might have this cyber Chondria and or health anxiety. And if you're listening, please email me any ideas for some topics for our upcoming shows and definitely for the spring semester. Don't forget our email address. Here is Brainmattersradio at wbuafm ua.edu. And we'll be right back after this short break.
[00:43:35] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling Center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's cris service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:44:13] Speaker B: Hey, you're listening to Brain Matters on 90.7 the Capstone. I'm Dr. B. J gunther. We're talking tonight about cybohondria and hypochondria, which is also known as illness, anxiety disorder, and or somatic symptom disorder. That is a mouthful, I know, but we're talking with Dr. Diane Gran. She is a licensed clinical psychologist.
And before the break, I asked you, Dr. Gran, what do you do if you feel like you suspect somebody, a loved one or a friend, maybe your roommate, maybe a boyfriend or girlfriend, a family member, has cyber Chondria? What would you tell them?
[00:44:53] Speaker C: There are things I would recommend you do, and some things I would recommend you don't do, but try. Encourage them to get help for their stress. And if you're talking to a roommate, a friend, or family member, I've noticed many people are more okay with acknowledging their stress than their anxiety.
As therapists, we sort of see the two as almost the same, but stress is more normalized. We have stress.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: You're right.
[00:45:27] Speaker C: So encourage them to get help with a therapist.
If they need medical advice, they should probably do that first, but once that's done, to see a therapist.
But then there are a number of things that they should try not to do. They should try not to tease, make fun of, or shame the person. That's one of the worst things to do.
I think I mentioned before, a lot of people with fibrochandria already feel embarrassed about having it, and that can worsen the anxiety and even make the stress related symptoms worse.
[00:46:12] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:46:14] Speaker C: For the person that has it, they should try to be compassionate with themselves, acknowledge they have stress, possibly anxiety related to that stress. There's help out there and be compassionate and get yourself the help that is available.
[00:46:35] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:46:38] Speaker C: Another good tip you can do with a therapist or on your own by searching online for relaxation skills is practicing deep breathing exercises, guided imagery, and progressive muscle relaxation.
All of those are fairly quick and easy skills to learn that help a lot with stress.
[00:47:04] Speaker B: And there's some really good phone apps, too, that teach you how to do that. Very simple.
[00:47:09] Speaker C: Yeah, things like calm.
Yeah, there are several good phone apps for that. It's a good point. You want to just make sure you stick with that F and don't diverge into online searching down the rabbit hole.
Another tip people can try journaling, where they write down their thoughts about being ill and write just next to it in a journal.
What is the evidence against that particular concern? Like, okay, I have serious headaches. Do I have a brain tumor? Which is not an unusual kind of anxiety evidence. No, I've seen a doctor that's ruled out I am okay, it's most likely stress. And then keep a list like that so that you can see the evidence of what is most likely the reality in your situation.
[00:48:14] Speaker B: That's right. It's like irrational versus rational.
[00:48:17] Speaker C: Yeah, right.
Obviously is talk to your physician. One thing that physicians can do that I think a lot of people overlook is if they've told you that you can rule out these other problems and this is most likely anxiety, you can ask them, well, what symptoms should I be alerted to?
Especially for someone who also has somatic symptoms with cyprondria. There might be a point at which their symptoms do get more serious, but the physician can say, call me if this that or that.
[00:49:00] Speaker B: That's a good point.
[00:49:01] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's really helpful because then they have something to hold on to is their safety net. And also they know not to pursue online searching if they don't have those conditions. Of course, the big tip that I think we've already talked about also is avoid going to sites that just are not reputable.
Not reputable.
Just give you the dramatic results that make you worry more.
[00:49:34] Speaker B: Those are wonderful suggestions. I know for us as therapists, it's just a matter of reiterating this over and over and over again and practicing with our client, actually practicing with them some of these, and giving some positive reinforcement when they are able to succeed at some of these ideas. And it works for them.
[00:49:56] Speaker C: Sure. That helps a lot.
[00:49:58] Speaker B: Yes. For anything, not just cyber conduct.
Thank you so much for being our guest tonight. This was fascinating. It's a very interesting topic that I think more people will be aware of now, hopefully, and we can talk more. I don't know. As far as being here at the Counseling center, I don't know how many students I've seen that I can look back now and think that maybe that was part of the anxiety and the stress that was going on was the health issue, the health anxiety. So this is great suggestions, and I think it's a topic that needs to be talked about more often.
[00:50:33] Speaker C: I agree. I'm glad you brought this topic up today.
[00:50:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you so much. Have a good evening. I'm going to make a few announcements before we go. Don't forget, our shows are recorded and podcasted on the Apple podcast and audioboom.com, and also to Voices ua.edu. Just type in Brain Matters and you'll find some of our past shows. And there's also a link to Voices ua.edu on the Counseling Center's website. And that's counseling. ua.edu. I like to always thank some of the people who've made the show possible. Our executive director here at the Counseling Center, Dr. Greg Vanderwald, my producer, Catherine Howell, and my colleagues at the Counseling Center, of course, the WVUA staff who edit our show every week, and my guest tonight, Dr. Diane grand. Join us next week. We've got another interesting topic. It'll be Halloween when we're on again, and the topic will be the Science of Fear and Folklore. I always kind of like to do a spooky topic for Halloween because a lot of times we fall near on Halloween. And if you know me well, you know that's my favorite holiday. That Catherine certainly does. So don't forget, we're on next week at 06:00 P.m. On 90.7. And again, thanks for listening tonight. Have a good night.
[00:51:58] Speaker A: This show was not intended as a substitute for professional counseling. Further, the views, opinions and conclusions expressed by the show hosts or their guests are their own and not necessarily those of the University of Alabama, its officers or trustees. Any views, opinions or conclusions shared on the show do not create a relationship between the host or any guest and any listener, and such a relationship should never be inferred. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, please contact the UA Counseling Center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective county's crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance.
